Sanity Check on Aisle 5, Please!

[WLDOR]

Hey there, Some of you might have read that I'm VERY new to quadcopters, and have already had a nasty experience with an 380-C that lost power and crashed into the ground, destroying the shafts on the gimbal motors. My "thing" is AP. I'm not a speed demon, but the whole aerial video/photography aspect has captivated me.

Well HobbyKing were kind enough to offer a tidy rebate for selling me (and several others that I know of) an open/returned item as a 'new' product…

… So I have a credit note burning a hole in my pocket. I started off just researching a replacement gimbal for the X380, but then decided why not remove the gimbal entirely, then use this as a 'trainer' machine, and instead order a build it for a new AP quad instead?

So I've kinda settled on the following, but would really appreciate a second/third/...hundredth set of eyes to help me sanity check the config. I'd love to add the full FPV function, but that might very well end in divorce, so I'll settle for a quality AP quad right now, with a view to adding-on in the future.

The preliminary config I've drawn up is as follows:

S500 FR4 Glass Fiber Quad Copter 480mm PNF Combo
Openpilot CC3D Flight Controller With Cable Set Fully Authorized (replace the included Thunder QQ controller for 'future-proofing')
Mini Ublox Neo-6M GPS for CC3D & Revolution Flight Controller w/Built-in Compass
HobbyKing Brushless ActionCam Gimbal With 2208 Motors and 3K Carbon Construction
2-Axis Brushless Camera Gimbal Stabilization Control Board w/IMU
HobbyKing™ Lipoly Low Voltage Alarm (2s~6s)
OrangeRx T-SIX 2.4GHz DSM2 Compatible 6CH Transmitter w/10 Model Memory and 3-Pos Switch (Mode 2)
OrangeRx R615X DSM2/DSMX Compatible 6Ch 2.4GHz Receiver w/CPPM

I'll also order JST breakout power cables, LiPo's, LED's etc, but the above is the "main config". Perhaps someone wouldn't mind checking the above for any obvious flaws/omissions before I push the 'order now' button, please and thank-you?

 

[Jackson]

Seems fine, get spare landing legs.

 

[WLDOR]

Thanks Jackson.

One of the items on my 'other necessary items' list is a set of crab-leg landing gear to replace the stock (apparently quite brittle) legs

 

[Jackson]

I guess they tend to break at that notch you see on the left.

Also do they or anyone offer spare arms?

 

[WLDOR]

They do offer spare arms, but I haven't read many reviews of those breaking, so didn't order any.

The later generation arms have a carbon rod insert through them, so I guess there may have been a problem with earlier model arms breaking, and this was deemed the appropriate fix?

 

[RGJameson]

You'll probably end up breaking an arm, be a shame to be stuck waiting if it happens.

 

[WLDOR]

Delivery day! (1 of 2)

 

[WLDOR]

Had fun putting the frame together last night - not very difficult at all, and went together pretty well overall.

My ignorance of these things (and all things electronic) is starting to shine through though… Setting up the CC3D controller with LebrePilot was very straightforward (though for some reason the wizard would not recognize any of the accessory switches on my radio?), and I have the FC programmed accordingly.

Trouble is, the gimbal & controller makes the quad very nose-heavy, so I'm not sure how to compensate for that? I tried a couple of test-flights, but was nervous to have the quad actually attempt an actual take-off - the rear lifts relatively easily, but she seems to want to push straight forward or worse, roll forward.

To further complicate matters, Motor 2 seems far more sluggish to throttle-up/down than the other motors (despite completing the wizard several times, calibrating each motor/ESC individually through LibrePilot - and multiple times too… each time, same result)

The gimbal & controller are where my ignorance REALLY comes to the fore… I have it all assembled/attached, and I followed the programming for the Arduino controller as best I could (the guides for these things are written by folk with far greater understanding of these things than I could ever hope to attain!)… by some utter fluke, I managed to get it to "work"… ~somewhat~! The motors are constantly trying to 'move' (calibrate/recalibrate), even when the quad is stationary. I'm sure I'm missing settings, but I don't have the faintest idea where to begin looking!

I daren't attempt to actually fly it yet, but IMO, she sure looks pretty good sat over on the dining table (My wife? yeah - she's not ~quite~ as amused as I am!):

 

[Jackson]

Setting up the CC3D controller with LebrePilot was very straightforward (though for some reason the wizard would not recognize any of the accessory switches on my radio?),

Check in your radio's menu to see of all channels are showing movement. I think your 3 way switch is on ch 6. If you see no movement find the listing that shows the values (ie -100 to +100 etc.) They may just be off (set to zero or something). Also find where you adjust the power output and set it to high.

 

[WLDOR]

Thanks Jackson. I tried that earlier this afternoon, thanks to this video (and on the Radio's OSD I can see the 3-way switch responding). For some reason, the LibrePilot wizard won't allow me to configure any of the Aux/Acc switches (other than the Flight Mode/Gear switch). I'm sure there's a way around that, but I wanted to get everything operational before I mess about with customising ("breaking") anything.

Programming that damned gimbal arduino through Mac OSX is driving me nuts! For whatever reason, the Arduino software sees the USB port on my late gen iMac as a Bluetooth modem(!), and not a serial port. I'm having issues flashing the EPROM that way ("synchronization issues"), and in addition, I've only got to that point once out of I can't tell you how many attempts… I keep getting all manner of initialization issues with the sketches before I can even validate them. I'm downloading the latest Martinez BruGi files (050 r217) from SourceForge.net, since they relocated from the Google Code archive some time back (though I did try the older iterations - same issues!)

I've downloaded the FTDI USB Serial Driver (some say it can help), I've removed the FTDI USB Serial Driver (others say it's problematic)… No difference.

I'm sure it's an "ID10t error", but it's frustrating me to no end right now… In the meantime, the gimbal does kinda level, and it does rotate as one would expect, but even when stationary, the motors are constantly on idle, causing a TON of vibration to the camera mount!

Oh, and a faulty ESC or Motor to boot… I remember why I stuck with R/C cars/buggies for so long - these things can be frustrating as all geddout!

 

[WLDOR]

First hurdle overcome - So the HobbyKing Gimbal Controller appears to require a Silicon Labs VCP Driver update (USB to UART Bridge) before it can be properly accessed via USB on a Mac (OSX El Capitan v:10.11.3)… I've managed to clear the EEPROM now, and have both a red and green glowing LED on the controller board (prior I only had a red LED)… Still not able to install the sketches though (fail at the first hurdle - they won't "verify", let alone "load" to the controller… will be working with a HobbyKing Product Specialist later this afternoon - hopefully they will be able to assist with remedying this).

In other news, I connected with another Product Specialist @ HobbyKing, re: my bad motor/ESC situation… they asked me to take a video to show the problem, which I did:

I assumed that I had one 'bad' motor, and 3 good ones… apparently I was wrong - They have diagnosed that I had ONE GOOD motor, and THREE bad ones!!! They've already ordered a full set of 4x new (and marginally more powerful?) motors, c/w 2x spare sets of props, and will be sending them out tonight via Fedex!

 

[WLDOR]

I received the identical Multistar 2212-920Kv replacement motors from Hobbyking this past week, and today went about installing them on the S500 frame. I re-flashed the CC3D through LibrePilot to ensure the latest firmware, then went through the setup wizard from start to finish- just to be safe.

Finally, I set-out to try my maiden flight… It went, well - ~OK-ish~, but it was far more difficult than I was hoping/expected.

Now, I don't have a gimbal/camera installed yet (one should be arriving anytime between now and eternity from Banggood!), so it's lighter than it will be when 'regularly equipped/loaded', and there was a very slight breeze (~5-10kmh if The Weather Network is to be believed).

I had to spend some time adjusting trim levels, yet every time I changed the quad's orientation, I had to re-adjust the trim (there was a VERY slightest breeze, but really not much whatsoever, and I wasn't exceeding 10-12' in altitude). In addition, the quad was ~extremely~ twitchy, and seemingly overly sensitive to even the slightest input on the controls… to the point that I just had zero confidence in flying it. Now, I don't profess to be anywhere near an 'expert' pilot, but this seemed ridiculously complicated to attempt to even hover, let alone manoeuvre.

Is it possible that the 500 class chassis needs a minimum amount of weight to prevent it being so sensitive to even the slightest input adjustment, or should I look elsewhere? I followed LibrePilot's "wizard" for the standard setup of the CC3D FC, made sure that the FC was centrally located in the middle of the chassis/motor arms, and that it was oriented correctly (arrow on the FC to the front of the craft, USB connector to the rear, PWM cabling guidelines followed, checked then re-checked), and that the transmitter was set correctly with all controls configured to respond in line with expectation). I didn't dare go anywhere near PID settings or anything else for that matter - I simply don't understand them anywhere near enough yet!

I should add that as well as the gimbal, I also ordered a CC3D Revolution controller - I'm hoping that some of the additional GPS functionality on that FC will help eradicate any ID10-t error on the user's part (I have the Neo-6M GPS unit already - I didn't realize it didn't provide any real benefit with the 'standard' CC3D)

 

[Mike H.]

I think the PID settings are what controls your yaw, pitch and roll rates...To tame those down you will probably have to dive into it and make custom changes...Also your radio has end point adjustments that can tame the input from your sticks..may want to see if that helps any,first.

 

[Jackson]

In addition, the quad was ~extremely~ twitchy, and seemingly overly sensitive to even the slightest input on the controls

That's where throttle curves and EXPos come into play. Either in Libre Pilot or on your radio. I used my radio as it's easier to do do fast tweaks at the field and get instant feedback to the changes.

 

[WLDOR]

Hmm… I'm looking at my transmitter (OrangeRX T-SIX), and I'm not seeing a 'Throttle Curve' adjustment feature when in Acro mode (Heli mode, yes - it's visible, together with 'Pitch Curve' & 'Swash Mix' - but not in Acro mode)

Am I missing something? I was under the impression that the transmitter should be set to Acro mode for quadcopters?

 

[WLDOR]

Well, I re-built the S500 frame a few weeks back, together with a cheap Banggood gimbal that I ordered. I replaced the CC3D controller with a CC3D Revolution board, and took her out for a maiden "flight".

All was ~OK~ - the motors, ESC's, FC all behaved as expected, but I fear the increased weight overloaded the props - they were just able to raise the machine off of the ground at right about WOT. Damn.

Well, I received another credit from HK (returned a faulty gimbal controller & gimbal), so in for a penny… I ordered the S550 Hexacopter frame, another pair of motors, and a pair of ESC's to match those I already had.

They arrived yesterday, so I set to work cannibalising the gimbal & FC from my S500, and putting them into the new Sexy Hex frame (nope - can't stick with that name).

I set about programming the FC this morning, but must've buggered up the armming process - right now it just looks pretty! Oh, and one of my solder joints for the front-facing white LED light strips must be weak - will fix that right up at the same time too… but for now, here she is in all her glory:

 

[GJH105775]

Well, I re-built the S500 frame a few weeks back, together with a cheap Banggood gimbal that I ordered. I replaced the CC3D controller with a CC3D Revolution board, and took her out for a maiden "flight".

All was ~OK~ - the motors, ESC's, FC all behaved as expected, but I fear the increased weight overloaded the props - they were just able to raise the machine off of the ground at right about WOT. Damn.

Well, I received another credit from HK (returned a faulty gimbal controller & gimbal), so in for a penny… I ordered the S550 Hexacopter frame, another pair of motors, and a pair of ESC's to match those I already had.

They arrived yesterday, so I set to work cannibalising the gimbal & FC from my S500, and putting them into the new Sexy Hex frame (nope - can't stick with that name).

I set about programming the FC this morning, but must've buggered up the armming process - right now it just looks pretty! Oh, and one of my solder joints for the front-facing white LED light strips must be weak - will fix that right up at the same time too… but for now, here she is in all her glory:

View attachment 1584View attachment 1585

Looking great man. Surprised you'd be at MTOW on a hex. If you wished it would be possible to replace two of the adjacent motors with something that had some "umph". Or you might be able to go to 4S if your equipment (ESCs and motors) support it.

 

[GJH105775]

Take a look at the questions that have been asked on HK, might be some useful info.

 

[WLDOR]

Thanks - it was the S500 quadcopter frame that struggled with the weight - and (I suspect) for several reasons:

1) The sheer weight! There was lots!
2) 9" props
3) just 4x 2212 motors
4) 3S battery…
5) My 3S batteries were discharging at only 10C! (I ~may~ have overlooked that somewhat important detail when I bought them… don't buy batts based on $ alone!)

When I upgraded the frame to a Hex, I also bought some extra batteries:
- 3x more Nanotech 850mah 2S batts for controllers (I LOVE these little batts - they have a heck of a punch, and they're really dinky!)
- 2x 3000mah 20c 4S batts (HK had a deal, offering these at $15.26 ea… wish I'd grabbed a couple more!)
- 2x 5000mah 30c 4S batts (heavy buggers @ 610g, but they were also on offer @ 17.41ea, so I snagged 'em - how bad could they be for that price?!?)

Hopefully the 4S higher discharge batts will help resolve some of my issues on the quad frame, and prevent same issues happening with the hex.

In other news: Fixed my LED light issue - not a dodgy solder… some idiot sliced through the PCB when he removed the weather-proof membrane…!

Next step: unsolder all my motors/ESC's, swap a couple of wires on each, then resolder them so that they create 'lift' instead of trying to push the frame through the soil to China...!

 

[GJH105775]

Thanks - it was the S500 quadcopter frame that struggled with the weight - and (I suspect) for several reasons:

1) The sheer weight! There was lots!
2) 9" props
3) just 4x 2212 motors
4) 3S battery…
5) My 3S batteries were discharging at only 10C! (I ~may~ have overlooked that somewhat important detail when I bought them… don't buy batts based on $ alone!)

When I upgraded the frame to a Hex, I also bought some extra batteries:
- 3x more Nanotech 850mah 2S batts for controllers (I LOVE these little batts - they have a heck of a punch, and they're really dinky!)
- 2x 3000mah 20c 4S batts (HK had a deal, offering these at $15.26 ea… wish I'd grabbed a couple more!)
- 2x 5000mah 30c 4S batts (heavy buggers @ 610g, but they were also on offer @ 17.41ea, so I snagged 'em - how bad could they be for that price?!?)

Hopefully the 4S higher discharge batts will help resolve some of my issues on the quad frame, and prevent same issues happening with the hex.

In other news: Fixed my LED light issue - not a dodgy solder… some idiot sliced through the PCB when he removed the weather-proof membrane…!

Next step: unsolder all my motors/ESC's, swap a couple of wires on each, then resolder them so that they create 'lift' instead of trying to push the frame through the soil to China...!

How much are you drawing, and how much capacitance does the battery have? It may be fine if it does not get hot or anything.