SkyRC imax B6AC v2 and a Battery Question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Gene_Drone, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Gene_Drone

    Gene_Drone Active Member

    I got the charger today from Amazon. Looks like it has a lot of capabilities. There will be a learning curve. My first disappointment was that there was no connector for my H107c. Where can I get one?

    Plus another battery question. I have using the charger that came with the H107c and a cheap charger that can do up to 6 batteries at a time. Is there a way to tell if a battery is shot. In other words can no longer take a charge?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Rick M

    Rick M Absent-minded professor

    That's a micro Losi connection. Best bet is to buy something like this, because it will connect to the red JST-RCY connector that does come with the B6AC:

    https://www.amazon.com/Hubsan-Quadc...r=8-63&keywords=5+to+1+LiPo+battery+connector

    You can charge up to 5 of the same battery simultaneously. Charge at or below 1C x the number of batteries. For example, for 4 600mah batteries, you would charge at .6 amps (600 milli-amps) x 4 = 2.4 amps or lower.
     
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  3. Jeff Neese

    Jeff Neese Well-Known Member

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  4. Gene_Drone

    Gene_Drone Active Member

    Thanks. Will the
    12-Port Parallel Charge Board for JST-XH & JST/Micro Losi
    handle my H501s too? Would be nice. Looking at the picture I think that the answer is yes. Again, thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge.
     
  5. Jeff Neese

    Jeff Neese Well-Known Member

    That board handles micro Losi and JST connectors only. You'd need an adapter for a H501s battery, which (I think) is called EC2 banana plug.

    Something like this will let you charge your H501s batteries with the Imax, one at a time. That's a lot faster than the one that came with your quad, plus you can discharge batteries or apply a storage charge, which you can't do with the Hubsan-supplied charger.

    https://www.amazon.com/Banana-Plug-Charge-Lead-Adapter/dp/B00XU6EHLY
     
  6. Gene_Drone

    Gene_Drone Active Member

    Thanks. But I am confused. I clicked on the link and it took me to the Amazon item. It looks strikingly like the one that came with the B6AC. What am I missing?
     
  7. Jeff Neese

    Jeff Neese Well-Known Member

    Did your Imax come with a cable that's compatible with that type of connector? I don't remember, but I don't think mine did. I don't have any batteries with that connector so I'd have to check if I got one with the charger. If yours did, you don't need to buy one.
     
  8. Gene_Drone

    Gene_Drone Active Member

    My imax came with nothing to help my cause. That is connectors for my H107c batteries nor my H501s batteries.
     
  9. mozquito1

    mozquito1 Well-Known Member

    As long as you stick to the same voltage you can pick any male/female connector you like & can all be reused. I find often the lipo you want is a bit dearer so I just buy XT60 and xt30 packs & fish for the lowest price Lipo's & swap connector. :cool:
    If need be, No worries. I never liked the micro or losi. So the 3 toys I had I swapped em out for jst.
     
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  10. Rick M

    Rick M Absent-minded professor

    The charger you only have to buy once. You just add connections to any battery you choose. As you buy different quads you will get to be good at identifying different connector types.

    The one for your H107c batteries - you have the red JST-RCY connector included with your B6:
    https://www.amazon.com/Walkera-Bala...pID=41QNnemNgqL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

    The one for your H501S, which connects to your Dean's "T" connector:
    https://www.ebay.com/i/322604319613?chn=ps&fl=a
     
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  11. Gyro Doctor

    Gyro Doctor Electronics Tech for over 45 years

    :rolleyes: ... The iMax B6AC is (imho) one of the best chargers you can buy. It can do anything you need for any battery you have.
    Yes, there's a learning curve with it, but that's because you can do so much with it. It is an accurate computerized BALANCE
    CHARGER, but when you "gang charge" several batteries at once using whatever parallel gadget du jour you forfeit that ability.
    The whole point of a balance charger is the equalization of cells in the pack NOT mindlessly supplying voltage to several packs at once,
    which can be done with a $2 "wall wart".
     
  12. Gene_Drone

    Gene_Drone Active Member

    Great insight. I do appreciate help from experienced flyers. What attachment do I need to charge my H107c batteries (I believe it is a "micro losi")
     
  13. Gyro Doctor

    Gyro Doctor Electronics Tech for over 45 years

    A "micro losi" to a "whatever you've got" adapter is in this link, or at least points you in the right direction (look around the bottom of the page).
    You can either convert it to a plug you know you have from your charger or even get just the losi to bare wires and solder banana plugs on to it or for that matter
    just cut the cable off the cheap charger that came with it. There's also many sources for "USB plug to micro losi plug" cables that you could chop the usb end off of.
    Note that your H107c uses a single cell battery, so there is no balancing it, but your iMax can still charge it (much faster than the stock charger) and do it safely. ;)

    Just be careful it's not being fed too much too fast or will puff and possibly even explode. :eek:
    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/xt60-to-micro-losi-charging-adapter-2pcs-bag.html?___store=en_us
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  14. Gyro Doctor

    Gyro Doctor Electronics Tech for over 45 years

    o_O ... An afterthought:
    Since your bats are single cells YOU CAN charge several of them (up to six on your iMax) together at once.
    The charger will "see" the separate batteries as cells and balance each battery as if it were just a cell in a bigger battery
    IF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT CABLING OR BOARD.

    My admonition regarding gang charging packs was directed at battery PACKS (multiple cells per battery) from a single source without the proper monitoring,
    which is a not too uncommon (but reckless imho) practice.

    It works like this: Charging six single-cell bats, three two-cell bats, two three-cell bats, or one six-cell bat is all the same thing to the charger IF it's done properly. :D
     
  15. Gyro Doctor

    Gyro Doctor Electronics Tech for over 45 years

    The following is the copied transcript of the conversation between myself and online "Help" with respect to the parallel "charging and balancing"
    board linked to previously in this thread. It was my hope that some one had developed a device that actually does what it's name eludes to, because if it
    did I'd buy it myself ! :p ..... However, that is NOT THE CASE. :(

    Commentary and/or emphasis not in the original conversation appears in red.
    ...............................................................................................................................................................................................................

    Thank you for choosing ***** for your RC needs. How may I help you today?

    How does this board balance multiple packs and perform proper balancing of the cells within those packs ?

    As the battery pack works in a parallel capacity, it will ensure that each cell in in perfect sync with the other. UTTER BULLSH*T

    I've seen parallel charging boards before, but they did not offer (or even dare to elude to) balancing functionality .... does this board use the
    charger's balancing ability through the use of some modified cable, or does it provide the balancing function it's self with internal circuitry?

    It will allow you to charge multiples of the same capacity and voltage battery pack with easy. All you have to do is set the voltage to the same
    setting on the battery packs and increase the set capacity to the multiple of battery packs you have plugged in.
    It uses the chargers balancing ability through the board to ensure each battery pack is charged to it's full potential. (note the term used is "pack" NOT "cell")

    Any charger without a balancing plug attached to it will only provide voltage and no monitoring, by saying it uses the charger's balancing port
    then please explain to me how proper balancing of the individual cells in each pack is accomplished ?

    It does require the charger have the balancing capability. If you do not have a balance charger, the balance feature will not com into effect with the battery packs.
    (Notice how he completely side stepped answering the clear and concise question posed to him)

    Actually it cannot .... the fact that the batteries are in parallel does NOT assure that each cell within the packs being charged is monitored unless the charger's
    balance port is used to monitor (and has the ability to monitor) 24 batteries as this board claims to handle ?!

    Without the balancing tap capability with the charger you are using, this 12-port parallel charge board which can either charge 12 x 3s battery packs or 12 x 2s
    battery packs at a time will not allow you to balance the battery packs.

    I understand that, but in order to charge twelve 3-cell packs you would need to be monitoring 36 cells !?
    NO charger has THAT capability.

    Incorrect. (No, that IS precisely correct) The balance board monitors each pack in parallel. The balancing board will read each first cell of each battery pack as 1-cell. and so on down the battery pack. It is effective as the battery packs are hooked up in parallel (remaining a 3s battery pack no matter the number plugged in) and not in series which would indeed need the capability you are referring to (which does not exist, you are correct). Unfortunately, I have to leave for the day, but i will leave you in the very capable hands of my co-worker Matt. He will be joining the chat here in one second.

    Hmmmm so, in other words, the "monitoring" aspect of this board is with respect to each BATTERY on it then, and not the CELLS of each battery. And also the monitoring of each cell in multiple battery packs when using this board would require a specially made cable to do so ..... Ok, thanks for your help

    ...........................................................................................................

    At no point did I mention that I'd studied Electronics Engineering and Computer Sciences in college during our conversation, nor did I feel compelled to continue the
    conversation further after being handed over to his coworker ... lol ... it would have been pretty much nothing more than an exercise in futility. :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
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  16. Jeff Neese

    Jeff Neese Well-Known Member

    If you are referring to the Precision RC charging board referenced above, it DOES come with balance plugs and cables for both 2s and 3s. It's not hard to understand how this charger accomplishes balancing cells across multiple batteries. They're in parallel so all cells in each parallel bank get the same charge, and the charger ensures that the charge is the same on both (or all three) banks of cells. (The first cells in all the batteries receive the same charge as the second bank, etc.) That's the same thing that happens when you balance charge one battery. So yes, it does accomplish a proper balance charge on multiple batteries. It's the same way with any parallel charging board that includes a balance port. Think about it a little harder.
     
  17. mozquito1

    mozquito1 Well-Known Member

    10 x 1300mah 4S Lipo's on one charge plate. @ 6amps takes about 40 min.
    I have two so I can do 40 Lipo's in a couple of hours. But not all the time I wouldn't advise it, it's not that accurate.
     
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  18. Gyro Doctor

    Gyro Doctor Electronics Tech for over 45 years

    Unless the laws of physics have changed since I began professionally messing with this stuff back in 1974 I am absolutely correct.

    Ohm's law states that in a parallel circuit the voltage applied to each node (battery in this case) is equal, and current varies (in other words it's
    NOT controlled) and is simply a function of the resistance value of that node, which in this case is the sum of the CELL resistances (which,
    remember by the way, are in SERIES).

    Conversely, in a series circuit the current applied to each node is equal, and the voltage varies.

    My argument is not that all the batteries aren't getting the same "charge" (more specifically voltage) it's that the cells in those batteries being charged are NOT being actively balanced. The only "balancing" (actually a misuse of the term) function of the board is only that it monitors each PACK (not each CELL) which speaks to equalization of the charges applied to each battery, but does not speak to the charge of each cell within said battery..... the customer support guy said as much when he indicated that the board only "sees" the first cell of each PACK that's on the board!

    If the batteries are single cell packs (as in the O.P.'s case) then sure it's fine to use, but don't try to tell me that it's balancing multicell packs.

    It should be obvious at this point that THE CELLS in each battery pack being charged in parallel on a board like this CANNOT POSSIBLY
    be getting balanced. Ever notice that instructions for use with these boards typically say to use similar batteries (meaning cell counts and capacities and similar states of discharge)? ... Wonder why? ... I'll tell you, it's because variations of those parameters cause an imbalanced condition wherein huge currents can be instantaneously transferred between the batteries and cells as they attempt to reach an equilibrium.

    People "gange charge" batteries all the time and get away with it. Sometimes one of their batteries when doing so just "puff up", and sometimes they do a lot more than that, like explode and catch fire. Short circuits (internal or otherwise), especially when dealing with racing packs, can
    release over 100 Amps which is very dangerous. I would never advise anyone to use these types of boards, but then I always like to err on the side of safety.

    In summary, there is the "real world" governed by physics and then there's the "marketing world" governed by nothing but bullsh*t and lies to whatever extent one feels comfortable in trying to get away with. One should be aware of that and never confuse the two.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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  19. Jeff Neese

    Jeff Neese Well-Known Member

    I think you're misunderstanding the use of the word "balance" when it comes to the charger. It refers to the final charge on all cells. In a 2s battery, the two cells are "balanced" so as to have an identical charge on each one.

    If your final charge on a 2s battery is 8.2V, the charger balances the cells so that each one is exactly 4.1V, not one at 4.0 and the other at 4.2, or something like that. And if you're charging multiple batteries, all of the first cells will be charged in parallel to 4.1v and they inherently will all be charged to the same voltage, since they're in parallel. Same for the second cells in parallel. So all cells in all batteries end up exactly 4.1V. Balanced.

    It does NOT mean that the charger balances the current draw on all those cells while it's charging. That's not what balance charging is. Naturally some cells will draw more current, especially if they are starting at a slightly lower charge. That's why you need to start them all out within about .2v of each other, so you don't have the higher-charged cells start dumping current into the lower-charged ones at a high rate.

    That's true on a single battery also. If for some reason you ended up with a 2s battery with the first cell at 3.0V and the other at 4.0V, the lower charged one will have higher current for a while until it "catches up". The charger doesn't balance the current to each cell, just the final charge.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  20. mozquito1

    mozquito1 Well-Known Member

    1974 :confused: Bloody hell Doc, your hobby is older than me. JUSTo_O 1975
     
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