Setting expectations flying an inexpensive quad.

Jim "JR"

Jim "JR"

Member
Greetings!

(Frustration)
I own several "inexpensive" quads, ranging from a SkyViper video drone all the way down to an Atom "shirt-pocket" quad and I want to be able to understand and set reasonable expectations about flying them.

Side note:
IMHO manufacturers of these low-priced quads that advertise them as "easy to fly, indoors or out" should be prosecuted for deceptive advertising. They are NOT "easy to fly" and especially those that advertise "it flies itself'!" or things like "one button auto-fly/auto-hover!", are so full of it, it's coming out of their [advertisements].

I have tried to fly all of them and I want to share my experiences to know are they typical or no.
  1. They are inherently unstable in any kind of wind stronger than a butterfly's downdraft. Even my relatively large SkyViper quad is extremely sensitive to winds. In an enclosed gymnasium, ventilator drafts caused my Hubsan X4 107c to drift all over the place.
  2. Based on my (limited) experience with small aircraft, good flying depends on proper trim. Trimming any of these quads appears to be an exercise in frustration as the battery power drops off long before proper trim is established. However, trying to fly an un-trimmed quad is like trying to balance cooked pasta on a pencil point - it goes wherever it darn-well pleases.
  3. The larger the quad, the easier it is to fly.
  4. Beginner quads should be required to have a 200+dBm screamer on them that goes off after a crash or loss of signal. Especially the smaller ones can be darned difficult to find - even in relatively tall lawn grass.
  5. Controllers should have either a small button cell, or a large capacitor, to help hold settings when changing the batteries.
  6. Calibration constants should be written to NOVRAM in both the device and it's controller.
    1. I store my devices with the batteries removed because favorable wind conditions happen infrequently. After being stored for a few months, accelerometer and trim settings are all lost, requiring re-calibration and re-trimming the next time I want to fly.

The result of all this is that trying to fly these beasties is self-flagellation at its finest. And no, I don't have access to a large enclosed area like a gymnasium to fly in whenever I please to accumulate stick-time.

Aside from wanting to fly a quad at all, (with a limited budget), what am I doing wrong?
(/frustration)

Jim "JR"
 
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davidhk129

davidhk129

Well-Known Member
I am a newbie myself. Started this hobby less than 2 months ago.
My suggestion to you :
1.Buy the drones that have Altitude Hold mode, at least.
Your Hudsan x4 107c ,which I also own one, does not have altitude hold. It can and will wander all over the place. Don't play tiny drone like that outdoor unless there is no wind. Of course you knew that.
2. Better still buy those with Optical Flow positioning feature. They are not expensive.
Please have a look at this thread I posted. I mentioned about Optical Flow as well as a couple of inexpensive drones available in the market. I love it. Mine can fly outdoor with wind speed less than 8 mph. No problem.
What is so good about Optical Flow ?
…. It will withstand relative degree of wind force. The size of the optical flow drone will decide how much wind force it can withstand. I have a XK X300. I can fly it in relative gusty wind.
…. Whenever you feel you are losing control of the drone, just let go the control sticks. The drone will "freeze" where it is. You can then gather your thoughts and decide what to do to recover, such as switching to Headless Mode and bring it back. That minimizes many otherwise crashes or worst ……. fly away.
3. I have noticed that we are getting GPS drones less and less expensive. Maybe one day we can buy them without breaking the bank.
 
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RENOV8R

RENOV8R

Well-Known Member
Welcome! I understand your frustration, but it's all part of the hobby. Contrary to popular belief, these little "beasties" do not fly themselves. But after a while at the stick of a 120mph racing quad then yes, these little guys ARE easy to fly!
 
wafflejock

wafflejock

Well-Known Member
Hello JR,

Going to respond to the statements/questions below inline

(Frustration) - This is common you'll have to get used to it ;)
  1. They are inherently unstable in any kind of wind stronger than a butterfly's downdraft. Even my relatively large SkyViper quad is extremely sensitive to winds.
    In an enclosed gymnasium, ventilator drafts caused my Hubsan X4 107c to drift all over the place.

    A quadcopter with brushless motors will typically have enough power to push through some wind (not high wind), but doesn't mean it's necessarily stable or able to hold altitude that requires a good barometer or ultrasound or GPS or optical flow positioning or any combo (the more the better typically).

  2. Based on my (limited) experience with small aircraft, good flying depends on proper trim. Trimming any of these quads appears to be an exercise in frustration as the battery power drops off long before proper trim is established. However, trying to fly an un-trimmed quad is like trying to balance cooked pasta on a pencil point - it goes wherever it darn-well pleases.

    Proper trim shouldn't be a major issue really, lots of cheaper models will be using slower processors though that can cause buffers to fill up and processing to get backed-up/delayed which can lead to drift. The controller/transmitter itself shouldn't have the values it's sending drift that much and that's what the trim on the transmitter controls (typically) . Most controller joysticks use potentiometers which can have their resistive part change over time or things bend that causes the resistance to change (really really expensive ones use linear halls sensors and magnets in the joysticks/gimbals to keep this more precise over the long term).

  3. The larger the quad, the easier it is to fly.

    I generally agree with this more power=more control overall and more weight=more inertia feels more stable, however indoors or in very tight spaces you want something smaller and with less power.

  4. Beginner quads should be required to have a 200+dBm screamer on them that goes off after a crash or loss of signal. Especially the smaller ones can be darned difficult to find - even in relatively tall lawn grass.

    Yup even my 250mm or 5" prop ones are hard to find sometimes (set betaflight to beep the motors after down for about a minute). Pro tip good to have a buzzer and/or GPS that has its own power that is hard to detach because often during a crash a battery can fly (I use two rubberized straps and it still happens)

  5. Controllers should have either a small button cell, or a large capacitor, to help hold settings when changing the batteries.

    The controllers I've taken apart use chips from a manufacturer called Atmel (same line of chips used in arduino, around 8-16MHz 8-bit processors, they must use the Analog to Digital (ADC) pins to read the voltage from the pots (and digital value from switches) and send along to the radio/transmitter chip.

  6. Calibration constants should be written to NOVRAM in both the device and it's controller.
    1. I store my devices with the batteries removed because favorable wind conditions happen infrequently. After being stored for a few months, accelerometer and trim settings are all lost, requiring re-calibration and re-trimming the next time I want to fly.
I believe the Atmel chips have an EEPROM that doesn't require power to maintain the memory but agree with what you say conceptually.

The result of all this is that trying to fly these beasties is self-flagellation at its finest. And no, I don't have access to a large enclosed area like a gymnasium to fly in whenever I please to accumulate stick-time.

hahahah

Aside from wanting to fly a quad at all, (with a limited budget), what am I doing wrong?
(/frustration)

Buy nice or buy twice, like you said they are toy grade quads then you will get toy grade experience. Hobby grade equipment will cost more and take more to learn about how it works (and how it doesn't) but you will get a much more enriched experience (I think most of start with toys though).

Forgot to say...Welcome! Glad to have more members here especially skeptical ones :)
 
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Dugdog47

Dugdog47

Well-Known Member
Get something tiny and cheap like the eachine H8 mini and a handful of batteries and practice while sitting on your couch to learn the controls.

Practice takeoffs and landings first then practice roll and pitch maneuvers, and finally throw in some yaw.

Once you got that down buy a race drone and some FPV goggles and send it!!

Welcome to the addiction!!!
 
Jim "JR"

Jim "JR"

Member
RENOV8R said:
But after a while at the stick of a 120mph racing quad then yes, these little guys ARE easy to fly!
Click to expand...

Yea, and after ejecting from an F-22 going mach 0.8 at 40,000 feet, a 20 foot drop onto soft grass is easy too! :(;)

I'll answer at greater length when I get back to a REAL keyboard. . .
 
davidhk129

davidhk129

Well-Known Member
Jim "JR"
Since you mentioned Hudsan x4 H107C, I strongly urge you to look up Helifar H803. It is a micro drone. Best for indoors.
It is very very inexpensive, about $40 Canadian ( yes, I'm in Canada).
It is FUN to fly indoor. None of the hassles H107C gives you. It has altitude hold and you can trim it on the fly.
More interestingly, H803 has obstacle avoidance sensors all around its body. You can, without using the controller, just simply turn it on by connecting the battery, toss it up in the air and it will just happily fly around. It will not hit anything. It won't crash because the sensors with keep it from heading to collision course.
It is one joyful little drone to play with.
 
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mark jackson

mark jackson

Well-Known Member
jim I have a disability my left arm/hand is not the best But! as davidhk129 said get a $100 ish drone with GPS and Alt hold and you wont look back I can fly my Syma X25 Pro almost one handed .... its like a light weight Phantom ....... or go all out and find a second hand Phantom they are rock solid in the air and have a great camera
 
Jim "JR"

Jim "JR"

Member
davidhk129 said:
Jim "JR"
Since you mentioned Hudsan x4 H107C, I strongly urge you to look up Helifar H803. It is a micro drone. Best for indoors.
It is very very inexpensive, about $40 Canadian ( yes, I'm in Canada).
It is FUN to fly indoor. None of the hassles H107C gives you. It has altitude hold and you can trim it on the fly.
More interestingly, H803 has obstacle avoidance sensors all around its body. You can, without using the controller, just simply turn it on by connecting the battery, toss it up in the air and it will just happily fly around. It will not hit anything. It won't crash because the sensors with keep it from heading to collision course.
It is one joyful little drone to play with.
Click to expand...

David,

I took your advice and bought the Helifar H803. In fact, based on the strength of your recommendation, I bought three of the beasties! One for me, one for my brother as a birthday present, and one for my two granddaughters. Amazon (here in the US), taxed me about $30 each. They came promptly and in good shape.

And that's when the fun ended. . . .

I charged up all the batteries, plugged one in, shook it, and let it go. It proceeded to find the nearest wall, zoom toward it at top speed, slam into it, and proceed to go all around the room hugging the wall as tightly as possible. Removing it from the wall and pointing it in another direction, it turned back around and ran right back to the wall I removed it from. Every stinkin' time!

Next test: Release the quad and hold my hand somewhat near it. It rushed to my hand and snuggled up to it like it was a long-lost friend.

Next test: Using the controller, I did a "calibration" - both controllers to the two bottom corners next to each other. Tried a lift-off, and it still rushed to the walls like a magnet. My hands were also still irresistible.

I tried these tests with both of the other two 'copters too - same result.

I sent an e-mail to Helifar's customer support, and - after almost a week - they replied and suggested that I should put the 'copters in "interactive" mode. OK, I'll bite. There's an "interactive mode" button on the controller, but pressing it does not appear to do anything - there is no change in the lights on the 'copter, so I have no way of knowing - by simple visual inspection - if Interactive Mode is truly active or not. I sent another customer service e-mail and, so far, no response. Not even an auto-responder.

Silly me. . . Based on the descriptions both on-line at Helifar, at Amazon, and here, I thought that simply powering up, shaking it, and tossing it somewhere would work with the so-called "Interactive Mode" on by default. Apparently not.

I tried them with power on, and after powering them down, (removing the battery and re-installing it), and nothing seems to work.

Does anyone out there in Television Land have any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? Or do I have the million-to-one chance where I received three quads with the exact same problem?

Thanks!

Jim "JR"
 
davidhk129

davidhk129

Well-Known Member
Jim "JR"

I just tried my H803. I plugged in the battery > shook it lightly till all the props turned > throw it up > it flew as expected and did not crash against any obstacles.

I don't know what to tell you. I am sorry you had such a hard time.
 
davidhk129

davidhk129

Well-Known Member
Jim :JR"

Give this a try...…
Fly the drone with the remote > once drone in air, top left of your remote, press the Interactive button until you hear a beep > put down the remote (don't turn it off) > see if the drone continues flying by itself without crashing.
 
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Jim "JR"

Jim "JR"

Member
David,

1. The problem is partially resolved:
(a) Apparently the instruction to throw the device into the air isn't just hyperbole, it is apparently a requirement for it to enable collision-avoidance mode. Once I started doing this, it buzzes around like an angry fly.

2. I have not had an opportunity to try your suggestion with the controller. If I get a chance to mess with it, I will report results. Unfortunately, I will be having a total-replacement of my right knee done on the 6th of September, so I am busy running around getting things ready. After the surgery - when I'm feeling a bit better - I will try it.

Thanks!

Jim "JR"
 
Jim "JR"

Jim "JR"

Member
David,

One other thing. . . .

I did notice one odd behavior. Apparently if you hold your hand a certain distance (or greater) from the quad, it avoids it. However, if you hold your hand too close to the quad, it confuses the avoidance programming and it rushes toward your hand instead of away from it.

Have you noticed that?

Jim "JR"
 
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