Newb Looking for advice on affordable micro/mini RTF

[Skybird]

I can't believe I have gone this long without getting into this really cool past time. A little about me, I have a 3 and half year old son, and I would like for him to enjoy this as well, I have never been involved in flying RCs. it's always been cost prohibitive for me. So now here we are in the 21st century and everyone and their mother can afford a quad. I never really understood what all the excitement was till I started seeing the videos on Youtube, the closest thing to a quad I ever considered was a Heli. Anyway I won't bore you guys with much more. Here's where I am at I don't have to time to make a custom quad and usually wind up gluing wrong parts etc. So I'm looking for an affordable RTF prefer with headless mode and auto return. I don't want to throw too much money into it or away, I say away because from what I have read things have a tendency of flying away. I have seen different models on Ebay, Amazon, Gearbest, Bangood. I have watched and read reviews. So I decided to first get an affordable quad or hex, around 30-40 bucks maybe more , micro with at least a 2.0 mp cam to practice indoors and maybe outside and get good at it and then a medium quad or hex with FPV like a Phantom but a lot more affordable, like a Eye Of God with the camera that can be controlled up or down or the One that has that really cool controller that looks like a flight stick U818s or V686 for more advanced stuff and AP. can't even think about a phantom or anything like that price. I have few concerns, but first here's the models I have been considering in some kind of list lol.

1st Syma S11c- light has geared rotors and supposed to be a good beginners quad, but has a 2.0mp fixed cam, has some cool mods
2nd. Hubsan X4, fast, but no blade guard comes with it and reviews say it cut your fingers, ouch!
3rd Eachines X6 Hex, pretty fast and stable,adjustable cam 2.0? , but the flight times is only like 5 minutes.
4th Cheerson C30w- , wifi FPV. 0.3mp but seems to lose signal a lot, based on video, I guess it's because the FPV is wifi. But it has an adjustable camera not sure about the quality.
5th Moontop Mt 9916 don't know anything about that one.

I was thinking if I can find a FPV micro with at 2.0 mp that would be great or something I could do a mod on later, my thoughts are the micros that have the cam mounted would be easier to upgrade, but from what I understand you would still need to add an FPV transmitter for the cam. So I'm torn between having better mod chances like with the Syma, and having a mounted cam that the cam can be adjusted like the Eachines X6 or Cheerson. Ok so I have some other thoughts, legality especially in my state where they are practically banned and non existent and the new FAA move to force for mandatory registration, but I'll stop here and see what you guys think and if by any chance you know of something that's not on my short list by all means let me know.
Thanks
Ken

 

[HDtallrider]

Welcome Skybird! The guy you need to get with is Mike H. He loves the little RTF's. Wouldn't be surprised if he tucks them in at night! Haha! You can click on "members" and contact him that way or you can hit "search forums", enter his name and view his posts. You can jump into one of those and get his advice there as well. Most of us "builders" like the Syma X5c1 to practice with because it flies so much like the larger quads. It takes video but doesn't have all the other features you named. It forces you to fly the quad which is why I like it for practice.

 

[Mike H.]

"Rock a bye Syma on the tree top, when the wind blows my Syma will drop"..haha.

There are quite a few models to choose from ranging in different sizes and with different features.

Headless mode is a fail safe, in that orientation is pretty much made easy..No mater what direction the quad points in, right is right and left is left...I suppose this can be easy way to somewhat learn but its also considered a crutch in teaching you how to fly properly.

The FPV systems on these toy quads do work but they are a far cry from anything quality wise...Poor range and video quality are the main issues with them.

Its not un common for some to purchase a model and just add a better quality fpv system or camera to them..This can add quite a bit to the cost however...typically you can purchase a full hobby grade FPV system for around $100.00 that leaves the toy grade systems in the dust but, still not professional quality.

Smaller sized quads i think are harder to fly as you can lose sight of them very easily and its much harder to determine the orientation of the quad to get it coming back to you...So based on this alone i recommend something of a larger size to get you started.

When you crash from a distance, larger quads are much easier to locate as well and ,maybe less chance of losing it forever.

My recommendation is learn to fly first, then opt for the bells and whistles later down the road...Consider it something that can save you the loss of your quad without much remorse to its cost.

An easy model to learn with outdoors is the SYMA X5C-1...You can get this model with or without the camera and its really a great starter quad...With the camera this usually costs around $55.00 for a complete ready to fly model.

If your curiosity gets the best of you and you decide you want an fpv system, SYMA offers a complete FPV system for around the same cost as the quad. http://m.banggood.com/Syma-X5C-1-X5...tion&utm_campaign=OpenPilot&utm_content=sandy
If saving around $20.00 is of interest? Then get the syma rtf without the camera (around $36.00) and, add the fpv kit later down the road..you get a different camera anyways that is fpv capable...It does work but dont expect it to be like fpv flights on hobby grade quads you find on youtube...Flying with FPV is a different ball game compared to watching the quad with your naked eye...It can be harder to fly as your field of view narrows considerably with cheaper fpv systems and smaller monitors.

Just look around at some models and tell us what you like..Every model will have its pros and cons..Some models might fly very well but have a horrible camera and/or fpv system, where as some might not fly as good but have a better camera or fpv system..There is no perfect model with the toy quads.

This is why i like to build hybrids

 

[Mike H.]

I have to mention here...One thing about these toy quads i dont like is all the great deals have to ship from china..Sometimes over a month to receive your product but when you do finally get it its a blast.

One thing to keep in mind is its a pretty smart decision to buy a spare of almost everything so the waiting isnt such a bad thing...More common items needed as spares are Props and motors and batteries...Not a bad thing to have a spare body either.

The cheapest way to do this is basically buying a complete quad as a BNF ( bind and fly)..You can get the syma x5c-1 without a camera or battery or transmitter for $19.00 and have a spare EVERYTHING to repair one with or just swap out to the new one when you break the old one.

Here links to one place that would be the least amount possible to get you started in FPV...These smaller quads cant take much added weight...If you want a "big boy" of the toy quads look into the SYMA X8C...these can carry go pro cameras with gimbals easily.

SYMA X5C-1 BNF $18.49
http://www.dealsmachine.com/best_234871.html

SYMA X5C-14 transmitter $12.49
http://www.dealsmachine.com/best_213481.html

SYMA 5.8G FPV kit. $51.99..This kit is said to have a range of 200 to 300m which is more than the range of your quad itself..so, its more than adequate for what it is...Just not high quality.
http://www.dealsmachine.com/best_259952.html

TOTAL: $82.97 SHIPPED.

Now we have the SYMA X8C with cheap camera for $107.00..no fpv...same camera as what x5c comes with just in a different case...This has a carry capacity of nearly 200g!!!!!!..it is 7.4v powered instead of 3.7 volts like the x5c...this one you need to mind your safety with the blades and others... This will carry high quality FPV equipment such as a go pro camera and gimbal system or most any fpv sytems..Flight times are 10 to 12 minutes on this model (as stock) with a 7.4v 2000mah lipo battery instead of 5 to 6 for the x5c with 3.7v 650mah batteries.
http://www.dealsmachine.com/best_229891.html

Pair the X8C with this and you are golden..Capable of connecting a go pro as well.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._Video_TX_RX_CP_Antennas_and_Camera_PNF_.html

Oh almost forgot..For your son?..the syma x5c-1 is a good start as well.

 

[Skybird]

Hi, guys thanks for the good tips, I must say I was rather surprised when I saw your ages, I was under the misconceeption this unlike tradional RC was a youngsters hobby, but as my wife pointed out, the guys who do the reviews on YT arent exactly young. HD, I found it particluarly funny what you said about Mike and the little guys and being tucked in at night. Mike I thought your lullaby was funny too, but not the part about being stuck in a tree, the last thing I lost in a tree was a $1 led bomerang I bought to play with my son, we were playing with it at the lake state park and it went high up in a tree and after much attempts of trying to throw a branch with kite string attached to it to shake it down , I finally gave up and we never saw it again. The only reason I tried so hard was because it was sentimental I guess.

I understand Mike what you are saying about no correct bird and they all have their pros and cons. As for the companies being in China I found that Gearbest and I think Banggood both have U.S. Wharehouses they can ship from and that cuts shipping time a lot. Anyhow I was leaning towards the X11c because of it's size and it's safer and easier to fly indoors VS. the medium size X5C-1. but it doesn't have an attached cam you can swap. The whole thing with the FPV is very intriguing to me, but here in Oregon FPV is practically outlawed from what I gather. If I can't get it right away but can upgrade later with a decent cam, that would be great, but if I'm not mistaken that would also require installing a FPV If I have to start messing with a soldering iron, i might toast the board, so that's why I would like one that has an attached cam, but from what I gather the X11-C and respective models don't have the capability of FPV upgrade, only the Hubsan X4, which is moe expensive and sounds dangerous due to the non geared blades I mean rotors, but if they can cut your fingers like one reviewer said they might as well be blades! So you guys prefer geared rotors vs the ones with the rotors on the motors?

I did take a particular interest in the X5C-1 after seeing a quadcopter101 review on YouTube but I also was impressed with the Scorpious it has the rotors on the bottom and seems to have less Jello, but for some reason the X5C-1 appealed to me, maybe because it looks sort of like a Phantom.
Funny thing about the X5C-1. I'm on ebay or what my wife and I refer to as "ecrap"a lot, seller/buyer and I always look for the rock bottom price bargain, always someone selling something that they don't know what it's worth. Well anyhow the other day, there was a lisitng for a X5C-1 for $5, I know what your thinking, it's a scam and you know what, you are right, and I fell for it hook line and sinker! The seller had good positive feedback and was in Asheville NC. So figured the worse I get is spare props for 5 bucks, it indicated there were more than 10 available and 70 had been sold in the last 24 hours, one buyer bought like 6 of them so I jumped on it cautiously and bought one and spent 5 bucks, I was trying to reason the price and was telling myself they probably just have a massive stock or worse they were stolen, one thing that that didn't make sense is the manufacturer was listed as "Braddock" or some rotor parts name like that, oh and the only other item for sale was a $8 fake watch. All red flags. Anyhow, within 24 hours I recieved a message from ebay, you may have been contacted by an account that has been compromised, the listing was gone as as was my payment and as was the selllers account at least for the time being. What happened is the sellers account was "hijacked" as they refer to being hacked by a Paypal account in China, all the money went to the hacker, the real seller whose account has been restored responded to me and told me thay haven't listed anything for 6 months! So ebay told me to open a complaint and the $5 will be refunded within 10 days, it's covered by the buyer protection since I will never receive the item. I could have been like the other dupes and bought multiples and then it would have been a bigger risk, but as I have heard so many times before if it's too good to be true it is. Ecrap gets hacked a lot both buyer and seller accounts, it's no longer a safe place to do business on and I'm hoping they either they get their security act together, probably never will, just look at their stock ticker and you can see they are in trouble, or better yet some other company puts them out of their misery. I hope you guys don't mind my sharing that little anecdote with you

 

[Skybird]

Here links to one place that would be the least amount possible to get you started in FPV...These smaller quads cant take much added weight...If you want a "big boy" of the toy quads look into the SYMA X8C...these can carry go pro cameras with gimbals easily.

SYMA X5C-1 BNF $18.49
http://www.dealsmachine.com/best_234871.html

SYMA X5C-14 transmitter $12.49
http://www.dealsmachine.com/best_213481.html

SYMA 5.8G FPV kit. $51.99..This kit is said to have a range of 200 to 300m which is more than the range of your quad itself..so, its more than adequate for what it is...Just not high quality.
http://www.dealsmachine.com/best_259952.html

TOTAL: $82.97 SHIPPED.

Now we have the SYMA X8C with cheap camera for $107.00..no fpv...same camera as what x5c comes with just in a different case...This has a carry capacity of nearly 200g!!!!!!..it is 7.4v powered instead of 3.7 volts like the x5c...this one you need to mind your safety with the blades and others... This will carry high quality FPV equipment such as a go pro camera and gimbal system or most any fpv sytems..Flight times are 10 to 12 minutes on this model (as stock) with a 7.4v 2000mah lipo battery instead of 5 to 6 for the x5c with 3.7v 650mah batteries.
http://www.dealsmachine.com/best_229891.html

Pair the X8C with this and you are golden..Capable of connecting a go pro as well.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._Video_TX_RX_CP_Antennas_and_Camera_PNF_.html

Well now I know what BNF means I kept wondering and meant to look it up, I thought it meant something like bare something or other, since most of these don't come with cams or transmitters. So since I really want to get a micro, BNF is out since the X11c comes with a cam and the the X11 does not and there is no kit to add one later? Kinda confused here, that's what prompted me start asking questions lol. Also I don't think I would be able to get away with anything here in OR that even smells like a Phantom, it's too risky. BTW Under the Oregon legislation, UAV users will be required to register their UAVs with the Oregon Department of Aviation starting in 2016. Does UAV mean micros too? Do they pose any threat to aircraft? Maybe helos that hover around 500 feet, don't get any of hose around here, where I am is semi rural, I think it's more of a concern of privacy here.

 

[Mike H.]

No soldering iron is really needed for FPV..most are plug and play..Whats great about the syma kit is, its all built into the camera case...you clip on the camera..attach the plug (s) and install the monitor on the radio and youre done..Again its not the greatest FPV but it does work and is a start.

The SymaX11C is a nice quad...most quads of this type are clones of the popular Hubsan X4...I havent owned the X11 but i do know it can be a handful in the higher rates..Its not programmed really for begginers...The Syma X12 however is.

One model id like to mention is the Bayang X9 of which i have one on order myself and waiting for the slow boat to arrive...This model has a very tame low rate and is considered a very good indoor model as well as an outdoor model on higher rates...however no camera.

There really is quite a bit of models to choose from and i havent owned them all but i certainly research them like my life depends on it to find the best of the bunch.

Just get what you like basically and let the course of learning begin..There is so much to learn and, i do believe its never ending.

A quad the size of the syma x5c is capable of carrying an 808 #16 v3 keychain camera which is by far superior to any of the cameras that come with most all of these toy quads...Anything smaller and you are stuck with what you get unless you care to shell out the money for a Micro FPV system.

I hate ebay..they allowed one member to take me for my product and money..I will never do business on ebay ever again..I sold an item to someone who later ,after the item was shipped decided to message me and say he wanted to cancel the order..well he was about an hour shy of it being shipped...Ebay gave him his money back and i never saw the item i sold to him again which he was supposed to ship back and never did.

 

[Skybird]

Oh almost forgot..For your son?..the syma x5c-1 is a good start as well.

I don't think he will be able to grasp it, I should have mentioned he has developmental delays, I was hoping he might grow into it eventually though.

 

[Skybird]

No soldering iron is really needed for FPV..most are plug and play..Whats great about the syma kit is, its all built into the camera case...you clip on the camera..attach the plug (s) and install the monitor on the radio and youre done..Again its not the greatest FPV but it does work and is a start.

The SymaX11C is a nice quad...most quads of this type are clones of the popular Hubsan X4...I havent owned the X11 but i do know it can be a handful in the higher rates..Its not programmed really for begginers...The Syma X12 however is.

One model id like to mention is the Bayang X9 of which i have one on order myself and waiting for the slow boat to arrive...This model has a very tame low rate and is considered a very good indoor model as well as an outdoor model on higher rates...however no camera.

There really is quite a bit of models to choose from and i havent owned them all but i certainly research them like my life depends on it to find the best of the bunch.

Just get what you like basically and let the course of learning begin..There is so much to learn and, i do believe its never ending.

A quad the size of the syma x5c is capable of carrying an 808 #16 v3 keychain camera which is by far superior to any of the cameras that come with most all of these toy quads...Anything smaller and you are stuck with what you get unless you care to shell out the money for a Micro FPV system.

I hate ebay..they allowed one member to take me for my product and money..I will never do business on ebay ever again..I sold an item to someone who later ,after the item was shipped decided to message me and say he wanted to cancel the order..well he was about an hour shy of it being shipped...Ebay gave him his money back and i never saw the item i sold to him again which he was supposed to ship back and never did.

As far as low rate, I don't mind it so much for entry level, from what I have seen on the review videos the stock 2.0 mp cams video looks pretty decent, the 0.3 terrible, of course 2.o mp can't rival 12mp or a gopro resolution, I was wodering have you experimented with mounting a mobious on a small quad?

 

[HDtallrider]

Told ya mike would overwhelm you! I just got this Spektrum camera/Tx. It is the size of a nickel and weighs only 10g. Surprisingly good quality video. I already have the Rx, monitor etc. so it made sense to me and I can also use it on a 310mm quad I just finished designing. Something to think about when you decide to move up a bit and quit playing with little baby micro's.
http://www.amazon.com/Spektrum-FPV-Ultra-Micro-Camera/dp/B00N3WQVJ6
Perfect for my X5c1. I got the X5 because it was a cheap way to practice and have fun. Typically, I just can't help tinkering and trying to make it better. My "cheap" little quad is approaching $200.00!! This hobby is truly a disease.......

 

[HDtallrider]

As far as low rate, I don't mind it so much for entry level, from what I have seen on the review videos the stock 2.0 mp cams video looks pretty decent, the 0.3 terrible, of course 2.o mp can't rival 12mp or a gopro resolution, i was wodering have you experimented with mounting a mobious on a small quad?

At 52g the mobius weighs more than the quad! Then you have to add the battery and mount.

 

[Skybird]

At 52g the mobius weighs more than the quad! Then you have to add the battery and mount.

I get it, way too heavy to lift lol from what I have seen in the video, it's good to use a postage scale everything comes down to grams and ounces.

Told ya mike would overwhelm you! I just got this Spektrum camera/Tx. It is the size of a nickel and weighs only 10g. Surprisingly good quality video. I already have the Rx, monitor etc. so it made sense to me and I can also use it on a 310mm quad I just finished designing. Something to think about when you decide to move up a bit and quit playing with little baby micro's.
http://www.amazon.com/Spektrum-FPV-Ultra-Micro-Camera/dp/B00N3WQVJ6
Perfect for my X5c1. I got the X5 because it was a cheap way to practice and have fun. Typically, I just can't help tinkering and trying to make it better. My "cheap" little quad is approaching $200.00!! This hobby is truly a disease.......

Yep I'm overwhelmed that's for sure

No soldering iron is really needed for FPV..most are plug and play..Whats great about the syma kit is, its all built into the camera case...you clip on the camera..attach the plug (s) and install the monitor on the radio and youre done..Again its not the greatest FPV but it does work and is a start.

The SymaX11C is a nice quad...most quads of this type are clones of the popular Hubsan X4...I havent owned the X11 but i do know it can be a handful in the higher rates..Its not programmed really for begginers...The Syma X12 however is.

One model id like to mention is the Bayang X9 of which i have one on order myself and waiting for the slow boat to arrive...This model has a very tame low rate and is considered a very good indoor model as well as an outdoor model on higher rates...however no camera.

There really is quite a bit of models to choose from and i havent owned them all but i certainly research them like my life depends on it to find the best of the bunch.

Just get what you like basically and let the course of learning begin..There is so much to learn and, i do believe its never ending.

A quad the size of the syma x5c is capable of carrying an 808 #16 v3 keychain camera which is by far superior to any of the cameras that come with most all of these toy quads...Anything smaller and you are stuck with what you get unless you care to shell out the money for a Micro FPV system.

I hate ebay..they allowed one member to take me for my product and money..I will never do business on ebay ever again..I sold an item to someone who later ,after the item was shipped decided to message me and say he wanted to cancel the order..well he was about an hour shy of it being shipped...Ebay gave him his money back and i never saw the item i sold to him again which he was supposed to ship back and never did.

Yes the X5-C does sound appealing since it's all self contained, still not a micro, have you ever flown one indoors? Just wondering.
Well doesn't the fact that the X11C has geared motors VS what the X4 has make it slightly different in handling? Keychain cam sounds intriguing.
You mean the X12S that's even smaller than the X11? Micro FPV like Hubsan 107d X4 at close to $125? So if I don't go custom on a micro I can pretty much forget a FPV setup? Yes eBay sucks eggs, can you recommend an alternative to buy and sell on?

 

[Mike H.]

I get it, way too heavy to lift lol from what I have seen in the video, it's good to use a postage scale everything comes down to grams and ounces.

An X8C could lift the mobius and not even sweat...hahaha

 

[Mike H.]

Well doesn't the fact that the X11C has geared motors VS what the X4 has make it slightly different in handling? Keychain cam sounds intriguing.
You mean the X12S that's even smaller than the X11? Micro FPV like Hubsan x4 107d at close to $125? Yes eBay sucks eggs, can you recommend an alternative to buy and sell on?

Geared motors tend to use a larger prop and have a higher KV motor rating..Actually geared set ups are more stable from the use of larger props but also tend to weigh alot more.

Look in the banggood USA warehouse..i think they still have the hubsan 107C for sale for $25.00..i think it does come with the camera.

And yes the x12 is smaller and the battery is built in..If it goes bad you remove the body and unsolder it and solder in a new one...Its really a true beginners model.

 

[HDtallrider]

An X8C could lift the mobius and not even sweat...hahaha

Blasphemy!! Are you thinking of dumping your precious micro's and getting a real quad? Hahahahaaa!

 

[Skybird]

No soldering iron is really needed for FPV..most are plug and play..Whats great about the syma kit is, its all built into the camera case...you clip on the camera..attach the plug (s) and install the monitor on the radio and youre done..Again its not the greatest FPV but it does work and is a start.

The SymaX11C is a nice quad...most quads of this type are clones of the popular Hubsan X4...I havent owned the X11 but i do know it can be a handful in the higher rates..Its not programmed really for begginers...The Syma X12 however is.

One model id like to mention is the Bayang X9 of which i have one on order myself and waiting for the slow boat to arrive...This model has a very tame low rate and is considered a very good indoor model as well as an outdoor model on higher rates...however no camera.

There really is quite a bit of models to choose from and i havent owned them all but i certainly research them like my life depends on it to find the best of the bunch.

Just get what you like basically and let the course of learning begin..There is so much to learn and, i do believe its never ending.

A quad the size of the syma x5c is capable of carrying an 808 #16 v3 keychain camera which is by far superior to any of the cameras that come with most all of these toy quads...Anything smaller and you are stuck with what you get unless you care to shell out the money for a Micro FPV system.

I hate ebay..they allowed one member to take me for my product and money..I will never do business on ebay ever again..I sold an item to someone who later ,after the item was shipped decided to message me and say he wanted to cancel the order..well he was about an hour shy of it being shipped...Ebay gave him his money back and i never saw the item i sold to him again

 

[Skybird]

Well my 5 bucks were refunded faster than I thought it would take, now I can put it towards the quad I will buy

 

[Mike H.]

Blasphemy!! Are you thinking of dumping your precious micro's and getting a real quad? Hahahahaaa!

Hey now, it still uses brushed motors and has an $8.00 fcb...Its still a toy..lmao

 

[Mike H.]

Well my 5 bucks were refunded faster than I thought it would take, now I can put it towards the quad I will buy

Didnt mean to overwhelm...there is just so many choices to make..I tend to recommend models that are highly popular and get good reviews...They all have some sort of issue with either range or motors burning out quickly or fragile bodies that crack if you sneeze.

The X5C-1 is a very very popular model and great for a larger (200mm) sized quad.

The X11C is a lower cost alternative to the hubsan X4 but as the syma isnt as good as a DJI the X11 is not a Hubsan.

As cheap as it is to own these quads it doesnt really matter what you start with, just get started...You will certainly end up buying and trying other models.

My thing i do is mix and match these good models to create one even better.

I might choose the motors from one model..the body from another...the flight control board (FCB) from yet another and the props from something else to make one quad.

Let us know what you get and keep us updated ...If you need any help we certainly are happy to do so.

 

[Skybird]

Hey now, it still uses brushed motors and has an $8.00 fcb...Its still a toy..lmao

wow didn't take long for the thread to be 2 pages, I guess I'm too winded lol.
That reminds me, how important do you guys think a brushed motor is VS. brushed? Just checked out a video review of the Bayang 9, nice but only 5.5 mins flight time no way you could mount a cam on it at least I don't think there is, the guy said its a clone of another model, can't remember which?