first time flyer

Discussion in 'Getting Started' started by yay, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    eachine e011 arrived today, i'm starting to wonder if it needs some adjusting to fly.

    two battery charges now, having the same basic issue of maintaining altitude. increase throttle goes up fast, great, but leaving the control there ("there" being something between getting off the floor and crashing into the ceiling) means descending very soon.

    i'm getting some drift in a closed room - i've calibrated (tilt both sticks lower right then lower left, flashing is alright) but i haven't been able to adjust the trimmers because i don't get enough air time. if it's not going down it's veering off to the wall.

    i'm expecting the learning curve and all, but starting to wonder if my unit is imperfect.

    other new questions if you want a shot at them..

    so of course now i see why people don't clip the LEDs because they are program indicators.. there's no function in the circuit to the diode otherwise, right? so one would be able to clip just one and still retain programmatic use. will probably remove lenses so they're more discrete.

    the big big newbie question is... are there any resources that can assist in sorting component specs.. it looks like i'm going to be working full time for months just to gather enough information to be able to identify optimal performance choices to decide on fundamental craft parameters.

    cool, not as loud as i thought it would be (or i can't hear those freqs anymore..)
  2. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    one more flight yesterday, managed to hover momentarily about 7' off the ground for a second, *didn't calibrate* on that charge, don't know if it remembers between battery charges, but it almost seemed better.

    more blather... manual says there are two calib modes, for with lego man and w/o. didn't put that into practice ... it seems to me from watching scores of videos now that builds are a lot more haphazard/arbitrary/imperfect than some retailers like to make out ... "don't build your own frame it will never work.." but these little plastic frames are so wiggly and folks are making frames out of chopsticks and stuff..

    ... so i'm guessing if i took the fcb and put it on a frame with arms that are 4" longer or something that it would still function reasonably well (imo this is basic supposition for building quads, i haven't seen any articles on "basics" like this, what i can fluff, what cannot be fluffed..)

    talking about fluff, though the quad is quieter than anticipated, stealth would be good - i intend to build cowling for the ducts out of polystyrene cups which should reduce lateral radiation of sound well .. i'll cut the cowling on the inside so there's no extra weight. keeping my eyes open for some super lightweight acrylic fur to then put in a square around the cowling, maybe glue and combed cotton balls... (then i need a little sun wu kong monkey figure to put on the cloud..)

    short term goals are easy, common mods, to manufacture a few remotes to cover the property.

    long term goal, i live near an unexplored mountain range ..the rincons.. there are large regions no one seems to have written about.. (..there's also a ww2 fighter wreck which will be awesome for fpv video, zooming through big hoops of rusting plane body..) ..might have to wait a few years for tech to catch up ... looks like rc hobby does 7km as max range, and considering the fcc this/theirs would be the prudent operating range to stay within... again, just blather at this point, but i've been thinking solar drone that landed and recharged and could stay out there for days or weeks (we don't rain for months..) wouldn't be impossible. dreaming for now.

    overall, great, love it. had a go at building robots 20+ years ago, still have some 2500rpm motors haha. now i can make ones that work.
  3. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    flight #4 ;)

    better at maintaining something closer to altitude,
    determined my directional stick doesn't recenter well, so lateral drift is alright when that works. as a last resort will open it up and mess with the springs.

    when i get to testing controller range i'll tie a string to it and walk 50m away and just test for up/down. initial flights have to be indoors, no grass here.

    cheap s-curve can be done n * n * (3 - n - n) on a 0 to 1 range... something tweaked like that would help keep lift in a useful range.. months ahead..
  4. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    flight #5...

    got brave and took it outside. a big risk as everything outside is hard or water, but i thought the extra room might help me develop manoeuvering skills instead of suffering. here's what happened! *hyper*

    i feel fortunate to have entered the field with the release of the eachine e011, given its cost and performance. .......

    well, outside, there is no ceiling, so the first thing you'll notice is that not minding the throttle expertly (you're new, remember?) means 50, 100 ft climbs in the blink of an eye. i'm really thinking at this point, perhaps a more expensive controller is worth the investment, even for entrants.

    the rest of what happened = time to go back inside and forget about flying.

    will have to superglue all my props on because i get about 4 or 5 seconds before they fly off. the first few times this happens, it's an asset, because you're getting rid of the stupid props that are molded too loose to stay on. the next few times, it's just a pita.

    so new flyers, listen to me and ignore all these experts who don't tell you anything useful. superglue the **** out of your props if you want to fly more than two seconds. i wish i existed in the past to communicate this valuable information instead of be ignorant about it. glad i ordered an extra set (the e011 does come with an extra set - i found one review that said it didn't, but that's alright, it looks like i'll be using them.)

    it would be great to find online some sort of compendium of useful advice for people who want to do this. i wonder where should i look?
  5. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    pre #5 :D

    wondering if someone can tell me any benefit more obvious from a long term perspective for having the x and y sticks parameterised the way they are... i mean, if you swapped the horizontal function, one stick would move like a car on the ground (fwd/rev, turn l/r) and the other stick would move like a cartesian cross aligned with the bearing... this seems to me immensely more sensible and useable and its likely i'll hack my controller as soon as i feel like getting to that.

    why is it like it is? is this convention in rc for some reason??

    also all along i've been thinking piano wire, though i remember it as being very difficult to work with because of the high temper, reads like i'll have to get a higher watt iron when i get to that (aren't there like pen size fuel torches now..). my thought was, a square wire frame with motors inside the square, mount boards batteries et c. balanced so the center of the drone is empty, and adaptable for tasks. plus it would be almost invisible.

    but the main idea i'm conveying about this wire outer frame idea in this newbie thread is, that you could stretch some pantyhose (or window screen or has a large selection of high spec screening in small parts) so when you crash your ducts don't suck up anything larger than dust. it would also contain props that detach.

    now i fly
  6. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    something clicked on 5 and my altitude control improved significantly. flight 6 didn't improve on that much and spent most of 5 and 6 adjusting the frame after those high drops on outside flights, causing slow clockwise rotation. beneficial as experience. looks like i'm getting the hang of it, but the vertical throttle ganged with yaw is frustrating when learning. step by step.

    part of the reason for this is flying indoors, where you can go so far then you need to go back to the center. the reason the rotation was beneficial for learning to fly is because it prompted me to make constant, intuitive adjustments to yaw instead of calculated, plotted course. a bigger test space would encourage that kind of piloting more i think. both intuitive, reactive skills and calculating skills are useful and necessary i would think.

    so i opened up the controller to see if i could swap the joystick x functions, looks like more than i want to deal with. the big button on the front of the controller doesn't actually do anything, but the antenna is right behind it, so bent that out and left button off. (also replaced top brick panel with piece of transparent carton plastic, lightweight and ought to be decent impact protection for fcb).

    can see why people listen to the motors over the camera.. like music.
  7. Flora

    Flora Member Merchant

    it's too long :)
  8. mozquito1

    mozquito1 Well-Known Member

    Toooooooo long a post plus we got not good advice for you. As you put it.
    What I will say is if you want stuff to stay in place, use red threadlock. Keeps things nice & snug. This advice is specifically for the op coz he knows best. Noob
    yay likes this.
  9. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    you is locking my thread alreadyz :O ty, will have a look after it, prolly about the same as vegemite really.

    (already lost all my extra cw props, indoors only until spares arrive)

    French Company Sets Record Flying Drone 30 Miles on 3G Cellular Network

    By SOFREP 06.15.2017#Featured Email Share Tweet

    Delair-Tech in coordination with utility provider RTE France set a record by flying a drone 30 miles while controlling it via a 3G cellular network. The ‘beyond visual line-of-sight’ (BVLOS) operation is designed to inspect large power lines.

    France’s Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGAC) approved a specific flight corridor for the experimental flight. Two pilots participated in the takeooff phase and two other pilots landed the aircraft, a 4.4-pound (2 kg) Delair-Tech DT18 composite airplane. The DT18 flew the route on autopilot, guided by GPS waypoints.

    “More flexible to use, the UAV offers a complementary solution to helicopter inspections for network maintenance conducted by RTE,” said Patrick Bortoli, the utility company’s director of maintenance. “This first 30-mile flight illustrates the RTE’s commitment to constant innovation that contributes to electricity that is safer, cheaper, and more respectful of the environment.”
  10. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    well you know perhaps some of this will be useful for other first timers. i spent say 20+ hours reading before the thing got here, so here are things i didn't read.

    i'm on say charge 10 now. extra batteries shipped from another location so 45 minutes between flights.

    the first thing to do is try to maintain altitude. isolate that to a point where you have some rudimentary aptitude and then you can deal with drift. the first say three or four flights were about OMG CEILING FLOOR CEILING FLOOR and by the time you're through with that the frame has taken enough impacts so that you've got drift.

    so the next step before learning to move over the ground is trim the bastard so you are dealing with developing skill instead of screwing your head in trying to develop skills in the time before it collides with something because it's drifting all over the place.

    i'd say the next step is to try walking around with it hovering in front of you, eg. to successfully ply a hallway or doorway and move between rooms. in house is good because the idealised plane surfaces teach you about the air volume your device needs, how it will suck straight down a wall or the proximity of ceiling or floor will reduce air flow and thus thrust.

    i guess any persistent flyer is going to learn that real quick anyway so there's no point in mentioning it, as you say, post too long, but i think i could have saved myself a couple of charges by following these steps, since the sky drops are taking lots of adjustment on subsequent flights.

    still think the controller would work better the other way. will have to buy another one because i'm having a hard time convincing myself that my progress of holding altitude while adjusting bearing is normal. also identified that my right stick doesn't always recenter perfectly. it's good to know where the errors are so i can reduce them. the pilot makes errors also :)

    otherwise for people reading before flying, i guess the h/w does recall settings between charges so you don't need to recalibrate at the beginning of every flight. nice to know instead of speculate.
  11. RENOV8R

    RENOV8R Well-Known Member

    Ok Geez, I've been doing it all wrong. Thanks
  12. mozquito1

    mozquito1 Well-Known Member

    Zz Zz Zz Z has he finished......
    Jackson likes this.
  13. Rick M

    Rick M Absent-minded professor

    *trying not to crack up*
  14. Gyro Doctor

    Gyro Doctor Electronics Tech for over 45 years

    o_O ... Two helpful words for my chatty flying friend ... lol ... "PIDs" and "Deadband" ... ;)
    yay likes this.
  15. ArmyVet

    ArmyVet Well-Known Member

    Resistance is futile...........
    yay likes this.
  16. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    ima gunna hafta spend loadz more on more quadcopters. gradually getting better but think i screwed it with drops. i don't know if the house is full of thermals (tucson, set to be like 120 on monday) because i keep drifting, one way, then the other.

    kinda okay if i let myself go completely intuitive and fly"constant adjustment" but if i try to be calculating, eg. "move to this altitude then go forward" as soon as i accelerate it will go up or left or something. and different. i'm watching some guy on youtube fly an e011 in 2' loops ... no clue how he gets such a soft yaw out of the controller. yeah i wish i had got two or three hehe so i'd know it was me or it. aah well, bent frame = parts for diy frame.

    newbie question for reals...

    i watch all these helpful videos, seems to be the format of choice. dude says "don't store lipos fully charged" and "don't store lipos undercharged" i kinda think, why don't he just say, where they should be charged to, instead of, where they shouldn't be charged to. because that would be more helpful. course, not like i trust anyone these days.

    when i get good i've found a new fun way to do teh dusting eh.
  17. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    i mean the thing is i think and then i talk because i figure, someone must be ahead of me on this.

    eg. apart from microquads i'd like to do a LR fpv for the mountains. so i'm watching these rc gliders with giant solar wingspans that come up on youtube. yes no yes no... well i wonder why they're not using the flexible plasticised solar stuff in strips as it would make a durable, lightweight wing surface itself. and i'm thinking about wings and quads and then it hits me, for meandering around a mountain range, or any of the other LR tasks such as that nice park ranger in nairobi et al. what you want is one of those foil helium balloons from the grocery store that say happy birthday on them.

    you see it's alright to go on and on here (abundance of excess energy) but i wonder why i haven't seen these kinds of builds about online. a dirigible quad would be versatile for long range exploration due to its ability to hover instead of gliders. maybe i need to go to an rc store instead of check things online because it has to have been done already.

    okay you're sick already but wait until i get my micro dirigible out in the middle of the sonoran desert. *image of waiting saguaro and chollas stretching into infinity*
  18. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    pretty sure my unit is too chewed up. one of the early outside flights processed a bunch of large grain sand, one of my two remaining cw props kind of looks like a dog toy. so it doesn't matter how i get things trimmed, i keep having unpredictable responses to piloting, eg. i'm now trying to get used to hover + forward creates lift, but the last time i moved forward from hovering, it actually went backwards due to the lift. so even though i can trim to a relatively stationary hover, manoeuvres are kind of messed up. hope my epacket gets here befor ei psot again :p don't learn outdoors in teh sand if you've only got one.

    you know another thing that occurs to me that i feel inclined to write about is,

    you know, if you have, say, a piano wire frame or such, or some form of roll bars or crash cage, then i'm thinking making the top pointy would stop it from landing flat upside down, maybe some contour like a leaf can be used where it will always roll back into upright position so it can take off again. i don't think i've even seen someone take the ducts off one. then i could do that. better ducts... ??
  19. ArmyVet

    ArmyVet Well-Known Member

    This is becoming much more fun than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick

    But, seriously YAY, let's examine one of your statements.

    " I am now trying to get used to hover + forward creates lift, but the last time i moved forward from hovering, it actually went backwards due to the lift."

    What does that tell you??? If you at a hover and generate lift. And you move a control surface and you go backwards. What caused that????
  20. yay

    yay Well-Known Member

    hehe weell it might have been many things, possibly in combination. iirc at the time it was moving towards a wall about 18" straight behind it. hard to say from here. (actually a fireplace mantle, chimney = air movement) it's true that i have been attempting to suss "forwards also equals lift" scenarios, but i'm relatively certain that when maintaining height, i've also moved forwards relatively evenly. probably a difference of velocity, discrete enough to be observed in such a way in n sample instances.

    i guess when they are marketed at 14+ a comprehensive awareness of physics isn't implicit. when it moves 2' over my head and i can feel the fans well i wonder what's going on when it moves over the floor.. having studied air pressure in the context of modeling musical instruments. that's a lot of practical experience to absorb. glad it's $16.

    so say around #14, battery takes about an hour now but almost seems to last longer since i make better use of it.. early in last flight i noticed that sharp switching to reverse from forward resulted in tumbling. once i found that threshold and experimented with switching fw/rev and l/r i can pretty much move to an area of the room at will but the yoyo needs improvement. wondering if extending the motors would improve stability for that kind of movement. et c. builds to do.

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