THIS JUST IN!!!!!!! VICTORY!!!!
- Thread starter mchaos
- Start date
Squirrel1138
Member
Woohoo. I'm ordering a new drone soon I didn't want to register it but like you I didn't want trouble either. Now I don't have to. THis is great.
Gyro Doctor
Electronics Tech for over 45 years
Cool Beans ! 
rosco11
Well-Known Member
Uhh, being an air traffic controller myself, i can promise you if you fly near active air traffic, be it VFR or commercial, you WILL BE ARRESTED for endangering lives. I promise you. Letting them know will only facilitate where to send law enforcement.
People, there is nothing that says you have to wipe your butt after taking a dump either. Use some common sense. It will only take one idiot to destroy a good thing. Don't do stupid stuff and the man will not come down on all of our heads.
LoneRCRanger
Well-Known Member
If I ever get my quadcopter to rise to 400 feet, it will be a miracle. It will mean that I am higher than most trees and less likely to crash into one. Of course, there are those pesky Redwood trees, but then, I don't live in California. I may need to change my alias to TreeRCSurgeon.
mchaos
Active Member
I think you are taking offense for no reason. I never said for everyone to go fly near an airport. Basically it, if I may be Blunt, It was $^%ing stupid to include "Toys", and drones so small they can't even fly 100 feet away from the transmitter. As of right now, "Toys" are no longer considered model aircraft.
The rules are also pretty damn stupid to include other types of drones. If I am 4 miles away, and want to fly my race quad around a field, and will not be getting close to 100 feet, for recreational flight is just stupid....
Further more, it is also ^&%&ing stupid to fly near an airport... and by near, I mean LOS. We also have to stick to class G airspace, and a major airport would not be class G anywhere near where air traffic is. So if you are staying within G airspace, and it is within 5 miles, you have to notify a tower if there is one. Which I find completely reasonable. But to give the tower the authority to tell you no when you are in class G is stupid.
Yeah I am 4.9 miles from the air port.. I want to fly... "No.. just because we can" It is now not within the FAA's jurisdiction. Also.. I never said anything about being able to fly in a no fly zone. National parks, and actually in class C airspace around a major airport.
You sound very pompous. You also sound like a control freak that just lost at a game of checkers... If I want to fly within 5 miles of an airport, and I call the tower, and I am no where near the airport but within 5 miles, they are going to give the the green light... Except maybe if you are the one in the tower it seems like. According to the "LAW" which is what we go by, not what you feel like... We can fly anywhere in G as long as we tell the tower. And it is pretty stupid of you to suggest if someone calls the tower they are going to get arrested, because you will just send the message.. "DON'T CALL OR YOU WILL GET ARRESTED" Not very proactive.
As for your last quote, it makes no sense, because I didn't say you don't have to call. I said you do. "People, there is nothing that says you have to call the tower before you fly within 5 miles" is = too "People, there is nothing that says you have to wipe your butt after taking a dump either." Where I said, you have to notify the tower... Get what I mean??
Part 107 holders can legally fly G without ever notifying the tower.. The only difference is, for Rec, no part 107 you have to let them know.. Try not making assumptions next time...
And lastly... I will be honest.. I do not know all of the rules and regs about airports, flight.. and all that jazz.... but I can read part 336 which is what we have to follow. That's what I am going by. I have no intentions of causing problems, but lets be honest about this... Getting permission to fly rec in G is stupid and not in the FAA jurisdiction.. and notably now backed by a supreme court decision. Go pound salt...
LoneRCRanger
Well-Known Member
Why so angry here? There is common knowledge. Your last part about "And lastly... I will be honest.. I do not know all of the rules and regs about airports, flight.. and all that jazz...." doesn't justify your tirade preceding it. But then, that's just my observation...
mchaos
Active Member
Your right. I apologize. I think he just hit a nerve. His response had no bearing on what I said...
Sorry... I may have been a bit rash...
LoneRCRanger
Well-Known Member
That's the spirit!
rosco11
Well-Known Member
It is the comment about flying anywhere near a tower, regardless of the type airspace. A drone, even a mini, can take out not only a small plane, but a jetliner too. Most towers in the U.S. are either government owned, city owned or private air strips, all of whom have complete authority to deny any type of activity on that property they see fit to deny. I seriously do not see any of them granting permission during active traffic.
And lets talk about 5 miles, or short finale for an average jet. 500 feet an below it is all good. One idiot wanting a better shot with his camera ship and....
A little perspective for you. A bird, with soft hollow bones, feathers and flesh took out a passenger jet forcing a landing in the Hudson River. A quad copter with carbon fiber, bits of metal and whatever is in a battery will cause MORE damage, not less.
I love my drone. When it flies. I would like more freedom in using it too. There are very few parks in south Florida that allow them. I can see the point though. While a skilled pilot will not very likely plow into a crowd of people, a beginner probably would. And that super cool DJI getting those awsome shots up in the sky? what happens when it has a minor malfunction like loosing a prop, esc, fc, bird strike, battery malfunction, short,...you get my point. It will generate enough force to cause serious damage to someone if it hits them.
Flying is inherently dangerous. ANY kind of flying. New pilots will hit stuff before they learn. It is what they do. Idiots will want to see how high they can go, it is what they do. If there were only rational people in the world with common sense, we would not need any laws.
My advice, do not fly anywhere near an airport. Do not even bother to call for permission, you will probably not get it. The person on the line who is responsible for the safety of everyone coming and going from the air field has no idea if you are a skilled pilot, rational sane person with common sense or an idiot. Likely they are leaning towards the later if you thought wanting to fly near an air field was something you might like to do. Five miles and under 40o feet is reasonable. geo fencing and under 100 feet would even further ease their tensions about our sport. Make it easy for them and they will make it easy for us. Push it and they WILL drop the hammer.
And lets talk about 5 miles, or short finale for an average jet. 500 feet an below it is all good. One idiot wanting a better shot with his camera ship and....
A little perspective for you. A bird, with soft hollow bones, feathers and flesh took out a passenger jet forcing a landing in the Hudson River. A quad copter with carbon fiber, bits of metal and whatever is in a battery will cause MORE damage, not less.
I love my drone. When it flies. I would like more freedom in using it too. There are very few parks in south Florida that allow them. I can see the point though. While a skilled pilot will not very likely plow into a crowd of people, a beginner probably would. And that super cool DJI getting those awsome shots up in the sky? what happens when it has a minor malfunction like loosing a prop, esc, fc, bird strike, battery malfunction, short,...you get my point. It will generate enough force to cause serious damage to someone if it hits them.
Flying is inherently dangerous. ANY kind of flying. New pilots will hit stuff before they learn. It is what they do. Idiots will want to see how high they can go, it is what they do. If there were only rational people in the world with common sense, we would not need any laws.
My advice, do not fly anywhere near an airport. Do not even bother to call for permission, you will probably not get it. The person on the line who is responsible for the safety of everyone coming and going from the air field has no idea if you are a skilled pilot, rational sane person with common sense or an idiot. Likely they are leaning towards the later if you thought wanting to fly near an air field was something you might like to do. Five miles and under 40o feet is reasonable. geo fencing and under 100 feet would even further ease their tensions about our sport. Make it easy for them and they will make it easy for us. Push it and they WILL drop the hammer.
mchaos
Active Member
Rosco11.. Here is the thing. Everything I have said, is in black and white, and up for all to see and read. You say and I quote, "It is the comment about flying anywhere near a tower".
Can you please show me where I said anything about flying near a tower, because I can't for the life of me find it.
From what I can see, all I said was, "but there is nothing that says an airport tower can refuse to let you fly, only that you have to let them know." Now that is a bit vague I admit, but you say that I said something about flying near a tower. I also believe I said that we must follow section 336. Within it clearly states G airspace only. Are you sure you are an air traffic controller?? Doesn't sound like you are, because if you are piloting a plane and plan to land at an airport in class G airspace, you are not required to radio anyone if you want to land.. And I am not suggesting that a pilot doesn't radio the airport because that is just stupid.
The FAA has no jurisdiction.
And I am trying to make head or tails out of your statement, "And lets talk about 5 miles, or short finale for an average jet. 500 feet an below it is all good." 5 miles... 500 feet.... ???? Let's see... 5 miles is 26,400 feet.... WTF are you talking about here, becase even if I am half that distance away from an airport, I am still 13,200 feet away... I certainly hope a plane is not going to be that low 13,200 feet from a runway....
Also.. I am not going to argue that there are morons out there that have done some really stupid poop with a phantom drone... Yosemite comes to mind. But how many planes have been brought down by a drone?? If you are going to comment on the incident in Canada.. please don't, any suggestion that a drone was involved has officially been ruled out...
Also, there are quite a few video's on youtube where drone pilots call the tower to get permission to fly within 5 miles of an airport, while the illegal law to register drones for recreation was in effect. In those video's the Towers had absolutely no objections. Here is one such example, but youtube is full of them..
Wonder why the tower didn't send the cops.......
What airport do you work at by the way???
Rosco, I think you need to check your self.... You have pretty much already wrecked your self..
EDIT: I don't own anything DJI and don't plan too. I fly a 5" racing quad. Honestly I wouldn't care to be near a major airport. My entire comment had to do with the FAA imposing illegal laws requiring a rec RC pilot to be controlled by FAA and for a Tower to be able to tell you that you cannot fly 4 miles from an airport. And let me be clear.. If I had planed to fly within 5 miles of an airport with a control tower I would call the tower. If the tower told me that if I flew there it would interfere with something, I would refrain, as I would recommend anyone to do. But since you are an air traffic controller, can you give me a valid reason a control tower around an airport would have for someone not flying a drone between 3 to 5 miles away from an airport???
Edit #2: Looking at the sectional for EWR, at 4 miles I am out side of B air space. There for a tower could not deny me. I would still have to call them, and let them know, but I would not get arrested if I flew 4 miles from EWR and let them know. B class airspace is a bit under a 4 mile radius around newark. As long as I am in G, the tower cannot deny me. Now it gets tricky for ERW... There are other airports so I would have to be west or north of ERW or I would be in B air space again. If you use your head an ready 336, and see that I said that we have to follow 336, you can see how poor your remarks are. If anyone flies in B, well than they they are breaking regulations all together, and I would hope the tower tells them, "You are not allowed to fly within B class airspace, regardless of what the tower says. If you do you would be breaking the law."
Edit 3: at this point I can't help my self.. Your just a big target now... If I am flying a "toy drone" and I am 300 feet from the airport. And the toy has a range of 100 feet on it's best day, after that it drops out of the sky... Can you please explain to me how this is a danger? ( I am not suggesting someone do this.. but your remark about the "bird" when we clearly know it was "Bird(s)", how is something the size of a match box going to take down a jet liner?? Explain me that...
Last edited:
mchaos
Active Member
Here you go LoL.. This I think sums it all up.. HAHA.. this is quite possibly the best video I have found on the subject and for some reason I can't help but watch it over and over again.. I feel like I am on something WOOOOOO HOOOOOOO
Come on, we gotta give this vid likes LOL......
Come on, we gotta give this vid likes LOL......
rosco11
Well-Known Member
"but there is nothing that says an airport tower can refuse to let you fly, only that you have to let them know."
Assuming you want to fly near one, otherwise why call at all? Outside of their controlled airspace, they have no jurisdiction. Below 3000 feet and outside of their controlled airspace is considered "uncontrolled airspace" and thus the government does not even have control. That said, over populated areas, local governments and to some extent, federal governments do have regulations restricting some activities like paragliding, parachuting, launching hobby rockets and thus. I am guessing that is why hobby aircraft were handed to the FAA.
My point is we can control what regulations get passed or not by using some common sense. Mixing altitude over residential, commercial, or otherwise populated areas is a bad thing and we should not do it. Period. Racers are not the problem and will likely never be the problem. Most of their flying is in a controlled environment and close to the ground. The problem starts with camera ships being marketed to completely inexperienced pilots. Non-pilots. The advent of wi-fi control and gps positioning makes it possible for someone completely clueless to launch a camera ship into controlled airspace and over populated areas without even knowing the basics of controlling the quad or even a basic understanding of why they shouldn't.
The AMA would be an ideal place to police the sport but in order to do so, it should be mandatory to be a member to purchase anything more capable than a microcopter. Why? Idiots. Will only take one to bring the man down on our head. Unfortunately there are a lot of idiots in the world. it is why we have laws and regulations.
An airport tower does not want you calling them at all. You need to if you are doing something potentially hazardous in the vicinity of live traffic and i promise you, you will not get permission to do so. Outside of that, you NEVER had to call any tower for permission. Thus the assumption you wanted to fly near a tower when you quoted "but there is nothing that says an airport tower can refuse to let you fly, only that you have to let them know."
Yes they can refuse to let you fly in their controlled airspace. Yes they will refuse to let you fly in their controlled airspace. Yes they will have you arrested for doing so.
Do not fly anywhere near an active air field. Not even racing unless it is indoors. Use some common sense and the man will leave us alone.
Again, it is the camera ships that will ruin it for the rest of us. Any idiot can fly one.
Assuming you want to fly near one, otherwise why call at all? Outside of their controlled airspace, they have no jurisdiction. Below 3000 feet and outside of their controlled airspace is considered "uncontrolled airspace" and thus the government does not even have control. That said, over populated areas, local governments and to some extent, federal governments do have regulations restricting some activities like paragliding, parachuting, launching hobby rockets and thus. I am guessing that is why hobby aircraft were handed to the FAA.
My point is we can control what regulations get passed or not by using some common sense. Mixing altitude over residential, commercial, or otherwise populated areas is a bad thing and we should not do it. Period. Racers are not the problem and will likely never be the problem. Most of their flying is in a controlled environment and close to the ground. The problem starts with camera ships being marketed to completely inexperienced pilots. Non-pilots. The advent of wi-fi control and gps positioning makes it possible for someone completely clueless to launch a camera ship into controlled airspace and over populated areas without even knowing the basics of controlling the quad or even a basic understanding of why they shouldn't.
The AMA would be an ideal place to police the sport but in order to do so, it should be mandatory to be a member to purchase anything more capable than a microcopter. Why? Idiots. Will only take one to bring the man down on our head. Unfortunately there are a lot of idiots in the world. it is why we have laws and regulations.
An airport tower does not want you calling them at all. You need to if you are doing something potentially hazardous in the vicinity of live traffic and i promise you, you will not get permission to do so. Outside of that, you NEVER had to call any tower for permission. Thus the assumption you wanted to fly near a tower when you quoted "but there is nothing that says an airport tower can refuse to let you fly, only that you have to let them know."
Yes they can refuse to let you fly in their controlled airspace. Yes they will refuse to let you fly in their controlled airspace. Yes they will have you arrested for doing so.
Do not fly anywhere near an active air field. Not even racing unless it is indoors. Use some common sense and the man will leave us alone.
Again, it is the camera ships that will ruin it for the rest of us. Any idiot can fly one.
LoneRCRanger
Well-Known Member
Why fly near an airport anyways? Isn't that just looking for trouble? You have a choice to DO IT or NOT DO IT. What is the prudent thing to do?
mchaos
Active Member
Rosco.. Again.. Where are you getting your assumptions. Are you just stupid? That's it isn't it?
Listen stupid, I said have to follow section 336. In section it says G airspace. The airspace around an airport varies depending upon the traffic.. You are not an air traffic controller. you are just a lair with low intelligence.. Around a comercial air port the airs spaces B class and is about 4 miles radius around the airport at the first shelf. Beyond that is G airspace, and if you are 4.5 miles from the airport, you cannot be denied and you will not get arrested. At a G class airport, I can fly all I want with calling a damn person. There is no control tower and the regulations say so.
Did you even read my post?
As for. "An airport tower does not want you calling them at all." That is a load of #$%^. The tower would actually want you to call. The reason is they want to know if there is going to be a drone flying. What make more sense.. the tower not want the call about the drone, or someone just flying it without letting them know..
I highly doubt you are an air traffic controller and highly doubt you can even read a sectional... I can.....
And have you looked on youtube, there are dozens of examples of people calling the tower asking for permission to fly and the tower giving the green light. There is a lot of info out there backing up my point, where is yours?
And lastly...
"but there is nothing that says an airport tower can refuse to let you fly, only that you have to let them know."
I actually quoted my self that very quote. Maybe if you knew how to read. You said "It is the comment about flying anywhere near a tower" .. You still haven't told me where I said that.
in "but there is nothing that says an airport tower can refuse to let you fly, only that you have to let them know." there is noting about flying near a tower.
Stop lying.. admit grasping for straws and give it up...
as for
Thus the assumption you wanted to fly near a tower when you quoted "but there is nothing that says an airport tower can refuse to let you fly, only that you have to let them know."
Have you heard the old saying.. "never assume, because you make an ASS out of U and ME... ASS U ME.......
To assume that when I say "HAVE TO FOLLOW 336" and "tower cannot refuse you" How can you assume fly around Tower...
Lastly
"I am guessing that is why hobby aircraft were handed to the FAA." How thick are you.. FAA has absolutely NO jurisdiction over recreational RC flight. According to an appeals court that recently Threw out the Drone registrations law...
Maybe you had better wake up and read the news...
Listen stupid, I said have to follow section 336. In section it says G airspace. The airspace around an airport varies depending upon the traffic.. You are not an air traffic controller. you are just a lair with low intelligence.. Around a comercial air port the airs spaces B class and is about 4 miles radius around the airport at the first shelf. Beyond that is G airspace, and if you are 4.5 miles from the airport, you cannot be denied and you will not get arrested. At a G class airport, I can fly all I want with calling a damn person. There is no control tower and the regulations say so.
Did you even read my post?
As for. "An airport tower does not want you calling them at all." That is a load of #$%^. The tower would actually want you to call. The reason is they want to know if there is going to be a drone flying. What make more sense.. the tower not want the call about the drone, or someone just flying it without letting them know..
I highly doubt you are an air traffic controller and highly doubt you can even read a sectional... I can.....
And have you looked on youtube, there are dozens of examples of people calling the tower asking for permission to fly and the tower giving the green light. There is a lot of info out there backing up my point, where is yours?
And lastly...
"but there is nothing that says an airport tower can refuse to let you fly, only that you have to let them know."
I actually quoted my self that very quote. Maybe if you knew how to read. You said "It is the comment about flying anywhere near a tower" .. You still haven't told me where I said that.
in "but there is nothing that says an airport tower can refuse to let you fly, only that you have to let them know." there is noting about flying near a tower.
Stop lying.. admit grasping for straws and give it up...
as for
Thus the assumption you wanted to fly near a tower when you quoted "but there is nothing that says an airport tower can refuse to let you fly, only that you have to let them know."
Have you heard the old saying.. "never assume, because you make an ASS out of U and ME... ASS U ME.......
To assume that when I say "HAVE TO FOLLOW 336" and "tower cannot refuse you" How can you assume fly around Tower...
Lastly
"I am guessing that is why hobby aircraft were handed to the FAA." How thick are you.. FAA has absolutely NO jurisdiction over recreational RC flight. According to an appeals court that recently Threw out the Drone registrations law...
Maybe you had better wake up and read the news...
Last edited:
mchaos
Active Member
I am sorry LoneRCRanger.. This guy went on a tangent with this.. Probably a lonely guy with nothing better to do in his life. He obviously hasn't read my posts entirely. He jumped in a thread, where my entire point was they threw out the illegal drone registration law.. The onlything we have to follow now is section 336. In it stats that you can fly in G airspace up to 400 feet. So if you are in G, and within 5 miles around an airport with a control tower, you need to let them know.
Some how he reads that I want to fly around a tower.
mchaos
Active Member
This is interesting... Rosoc says the tower doesn't want you calling, and that they would not say okay... Hum...
Humm.. this next one completely contradicts Rosco in every way..
This one is great.. It solves the issue of knuckle heads flying near an airport with a "camera drone" Where is your concern again?
Already posted this one, but it clearly shows a drone pilot getting approval from a tower to fly...
Humm.. this guy seemed to have a very pleasant convo with the tower, where they Let him fly....
Joshua Bardwell Knows someone who got permission.. and shows us the letter of agreement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7scG7PixhYI&t=45s
What's interesting is that I cannot find one video of someone getting denied.. Surly someone would want to put that video up if only to gripe.. But it doesn't exist... Hell I can't even find one on google..
I also searched for threads of people that said they were denied.. The closest I could find was someone who called a class G airport with no tower about flying.( The person who had no idea said no..) Which is funny because you do not have to even call class G airport although it would be a good thing to do. There's no tower lol. Other than that.. I couldn't find 1 legitimate thread where someone had asked and been denied....
Humm.. this next one completely contradicts Rosco in every way..
This one is great.. It solves the issue of knuckle heads flying near an airport with a "camera drone" Where is your concern again?
Already posted this one, but it clearly shows a drone pilot getting approval from a tower to fly...
Humm.. this guy seemed to have a very pleasant convo with the tower, where they Let him fly....
Joshua Bardwell Knows someone who got permission.. and shows us the letter of agreement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7scG7PixhYI&t=45s
What's interesting is that I cannot find one video of someone getting denied.. Surly someone would want to put that video up if only to gripe.. But it doesn't exist... Hell I can't even find one on google..
I also searched for threads of people that said they were denied.. The closest I could find was someone who called a class G airport with no tower about flying.( The person who had no idea said no..) Which is funny because you do not have to even call class G airport although it would be a good thing to do. There's no tower lol. Other than that.. I couldn't find 1 legitimate thread where someone had asked and been denied....
mozquito1
Well-Known Member
5.2miles from an airport & 400' in about 6 seconds. Still check the notam's though. As it's summer now, air shows in a couple of places. I had a light aircraft flying over me for an hour over a unused golf coarse & he was below 400' sure he was looking for trouble. I nearly gave him it. As in FU I was here first. But my conscience got the better of me. What goes through these pilots minds. Worse than drone pilots.