New build, FPV problems

Hi Hugh. Had a bit of fun today taking some video, although my fpv video was awful - think it had something to do with my adjusting settings in the house last night - lighting was way off today to the point that it was way overexposed and I didnt have the small board with setting buttons to make changes. Ah well......learn something new everyday :-).
While this video is not the greatest, I spent time on GoPro Studio getting my feet wet with s;licing/editing and adding text/music etc. Now........if I didnt have a job requiring my time & attention I'd sit and play at this all day ;-).
So.....here's the video.
Also, I've been looking at other video TX's along the line of what you've shared. Any brands to shy away from or to recommend?
 
I've had no issues with the LawMate transmitters I have. Your choice may be impacted by the goggles you select. You should look at YouTube reviews and comparisons. What is it that the Boscam tx is doing that you're not happy with?

The color balance on GoPros always seems to odd. In this video, the road looks light purple.
 
Good job Robert,

I hope my first stabilized video proves to be well ...... as stable :)

If I can fly the thing long enough without crashing you never know !

Cheers,

Dave
 
Good job Robert,

I hope my first stabilized video proves to be well ...... as stable :)

If I can fly the thing long enough without crashing you never know !

Cheers,

Dave
Hello Dave, and thanks. My recent "control issues" was apparently more an issue with my not paying attention to simple details like Center of Gravity (should have known better) and
also the effect of gains on control (never would have known this unless Hugh and another good soul from youtube hadnt told me). So post questions about anything you need to know. It's likely someone will offer some words of wisdom :-)
 
I've had no issues with the LawMate transmitters I have. Your choice may be impacted by the goggles you select. You should look at YouTube reviews and comparisons. What is it that the Boscam tx is doing that you're not happy with?

The color balance on GoPros always seems to odd. In this video, the road looks light purple.


Hi again Hugh. Not sure if it's the Boscam TX or the Sony 600tvl had ccd board camera. I spent the evening re-soldering all the fpv wire/connections, adding servo connectors to make changing TX and camera easy when it's time to do so. The change in wiring had no impact on video quality - just not getting a good clear picture on screen even if Im sitting right next to the TX. Antennas seem to work fine - walked through my house and outside and a couple hundred feet away (large yard) and signal was as good as sitting right next to the TX in the house. So.....Im guessing it's just my camera choice. (I bought 3 of the same board camera, each with a different lens - all 3 show similar lack of quality picture. What camera do you use for fpv?
 
Were you able to view the video on a television as opposed to that LCD screen? I know your screen has the receiver in it, but there should be a composite video output too. I'm just thinking something in the circuitry driving the screen could be introducing the loss of clarity.

I think the main board cam I use is a 700tvl http://www.banggood.com/EffioE-700TVL-FPV-13-Sony-960H-CCD-Sensor-OSD-100W-Mini-Camera-p-928871.html
but since you're only going to get 640 or NTSC lines or what not, I'm not sure if that improves anything. I also have one of these, with a wider light-gathering lens http://www.securitycamera2000.com/p...WDR-Color-Board-Camera-with-OSD-Menu-DNR.html
PL0075-0-Lens.jpg

and I don't see a lot of difference in clarity or definition. Just a brighter picture at and past dusk obviously.
My FPV view is certainly clear in terms of seeing enough sharpness and definition on objects and obstacles that I can fly. Have you considered trying your GoPro as an FPV camera? I think the info on that is pretty common. The real time video is integrated on the USB connector which I think must be a mini-USB, and there are cables with video and audio out and mini-USB on the other end.
 
Hugh, I do wonder if its my lcd monitor. The first one I ordered didnt work and was sent another to replace it. The company said it was the first time they had a problem with the monitor...but...
I tested the monitor with an external Vrx ....the one that came with my TX so it was a matched pair. Picture was no different. While no solution yet, it does narrow the cause of the problem down a bit. Either the camera quality, the Vtx or the monitor. Yesterday I bought a different fpv camera and a new/different brand Vtx. IF those dont solve the issue then the next/last step is to buy the goggles. It's on the list anyway :)
Also......I received the UBEC I ordered (after some of our initial conversations). As is common, no instructions and nothing on youtube that relates to what I think you were suggesting I do with it. This is the one I purchased. What next??
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...UBEC_US_Warehouse_.html?strSearch=quanum ubec
 
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I believe we were talking about powering your board cam and/or transmitter that work with anything around 12 volts. If you're running a 4S now and maybe considering 6S to gain duration, the bus voltage is going to fall above the upper limit on some of these devices. The BEC you got is switchable to deliver 7.2 volts (for high power servos) or 12 volts. Since you don't mind running your GoPro on its own battery, you can omit an extra 3S on board by connecting the BEC to bus power (straight off the battery or power distribution) and power your 2nd camera and transmitter from it. Not only will it be more stable; it'll be cleaner power too. Not saying it will make the video more clear, but if you had horizontal blue lines or other noise it might help with that.

Also your gimbal might work best at 12 volts. You'd have to look at the specs. for it.
 
Hi Hugh......first my gimbal is fine as it's drawing it's power from the gcu that comes with it. As for connecting the ubec to "bus power" are you saying to solder the cables directly to the power board for the copter? (where the wires go out from, to connect to the lipo battery?) If so, which of the wires from the ubec would be used (nix that ?.....I see it says "Input")....so I'd clip the plug and solder the hot and gnd to the board? Or?
 
I don't know what your board or plug look like, but you should be able to find an exposed spot on the plus and ground. Usually it's not as good an idea to cut the battery wire because they tend to be pretty beefy and difficult to solder back together. And you'd have to disconnect it to slip shrink tubing over it, and anything else would be too prone to falling off (followed by shorting out).

Follow the "hot" and ground from the battery cable and see if you can find a spot to land the two wires to power the BEC.

I understand your quad came ready for a gimbal, so that's solved. But another option is to tap off of where the gimbal controller gets power if that's 12v, but I'd check it first. Your quad may already have an integrated BEC for that and you can shelve the new one.
 
There is the exposed gnd and + solder points built into the main copter frame/board - the pcu, gcu and lead to the battery are all soldered there. Would be simple to add the UBEC. While the GCU (gimbal contral unit) provides power to the gimbal it does not provide power to the video TX or any of the other fpv equipment. That said, I read yesterday that the gcu does maintain the charge of the GoPro camera while in operation.
I played around with the UBEC last night and found that indeed the fpv camera/signal provided a "cleaner" picture on monitor. Heading out the door in a minute to fly. Will let you know outcomes :-)
And, again, thank you.
 
Back......am waiting on the edited video to export to my computer ....want to show you what happened. All was well flying and even the fpv was the best it's been yet - flew pretty much with my eyes on the monitor....until.........you'll see towards the end of the airborn part of the video, as I turn towards home and begin to descend while moving forward........loss of control again.


Was at around 82M....watching the monitor and picture went wobbly again ....looked up to see the copter descending rapidly and out of control - I gave it full throttle...attempted to go forward to get it out of the wobbly spin.......nothing worked. As this began to happen I was able to check quickly the voltage (was using my 8000mAh 4s battery) and the voltage showed as 15.2....so not a charge issue; had noticed earlier I had access to 14 gps sattelites.....no issue there? Was only between 350- 400feet from home base.
Now, after the copter was on the ground I put my RC on the ground (left it on) and went to retrieve the copter. You will hear on the video, some clicking pattern repeated consistently as I'm walking to the copter. Not sure if that is anything or not - could be that I left the RC on? Could also be the gimbal attempting to right itself?
Anyway......back to a few steps past square one......but still a challenge. And I was so enjoying the flight and visuals from the fpv........ugh!! This is a major reason why I'm not even thinking about flying distances away yet........as you can see from this video most of the area I live in is forested......a crash like today and I seriously doubt I'd ever be able to find it IF I had flown 1-2K away - would be up some tree somewhere!!
Your thoughts??!!
 
At 7:08 it sounds like the motors spun up suddenly. I agree the clicking was the gimbal trying to correct and you can hear the brushless motor actuating in a reset too, plus the image jerks just a bit with the clicks.
It seems this sudden control issue is caused by a bad response to something the controller is detecting. You didn't lose power at any point as far as I could tell -- the motors didn't stop or even slow really. Since you never seem to have any control once this starts, I'm wondering if it isn't a case of the receiver losing signal and going into failsafe. I've read a lot of accounts of failsafe not being configured by default for enough throttle to maintain altitude or even a slow descent. It could be that after failsafe is triggered, the extra weight is causing descent and prop wash instability now when your quad had been going into failsafe in the past but recovered without you knowing. And now dropping through prop wash is creating instability the controller can't cope with, and it stops trying to re-acquire the radio (or can't with the tx running). Intermittent problems are notoriously difficult to find and correct. If it is dropped reception, it doesn't have to be caused by distance, or weak signal. It could be a faulty component in either the radio or receiver (or both) and/or momentary local interference on the same frequency.

If I had to offer something, I'd say, create a dead payload the same weight as all the FPV gear you added. Remove all that powered stuff, and hang that dummy payload on the quad and do some more flights. I'm just having a really hard time believing this is totally electronic, although I'm not convinced the FPV tx isn't also stepping on your receiver at some angles. If your quad flies fine after many tests with an identical weight, it's something else, or weight AND something else. The problem is, if the drop out wasn't caused by the tx, and the receiver still goes into failsafe and descends from the weight, you won't really know it isn't something in the receiver, or if the FPV transmitter isn't causing it sometimes ALSO. If intermittent reception is initiating the cycle of events, how the events progress is not necessarily going to change, and again, I think the cycle could have been initiated before, but handled without your knowledge. The one thing the dead payload WILL tell you if the problem does not occur, is that it is NOT related to weight alone. Once reception lock is lost, having the tx signal present may be preventing reacquisition now, where it reacquired quickly before, and may even re-acquire and recover WITH the extra weight. I'm just not sure how the controller responds to being orphaned -- what the logic is?

Unfortunately, you don't have a log of telemetry data on the controller, do you? (I thought your DJI was using the Naza lite). You said you checked the voltage though, so your radio/receiver is two-way? I thought they used Spectrum radios.

As for finding a quad in the woods, yeah, that is a problem for a lot of flyers. It is common to put a strobe or other tracker on a craft, or if you have telemetry, you have the last good GPS coordinates to start your search with. You can also load those coordinates into another quad with waypoints and search from the air when a ground search fails. A lot of forest flyers like to keep their crafts painted with bright colors for just such occasions.
 
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So many IF's.........some of what I do know - There IS a cell tower in the vacinity....you can actually see it in the video about 400 meters away. The flight was going well; was taking things relatively slowly, climbing and descending at points. This is the first time I've actually gone close to 100m's high though and it was as I began my descent and heading back to home that the loss of control occurred. The amazing thing is nothing was damaged except the one side of my landing gear/skid which had broken during the last "crash" - I've ordered a few sheets of carbon fiber to re-fabricate a new leg support.
Once home I connected the quad back to the Naza assistant software and lowered my gains 10%. Took it back out later this afternoon and flew around the same fields as this morning. Went as high as about 30-35 m's without any issues. Flew with fpv so the V tx was operating. Maybe I WILL put some aluminum foil between the V tx and the RC rx - you had mentioned that before I think?
As for the failsafe feature on the Naza M V2 - I've only tested it maybe twice during initial trial runs. Did so by shutting off power to my RC and the quad/naza responded as advertised - rose to 60', hovered a bit then flew home and self landed a few feet from home point. As far as telemetry data....I dont know?? As I said I do use the Naza M V2 w/GPS but have no idea if there is recorded data or not? Also remember I have/use the DJI mini iOSD and the zenmuse h3-3d gimbal...both connect to the pmu (naza) either directly or through a can bus. I'd be lost attempting to make sense out of flight data??!!
One final thing to note; One main purpose of flight today was to drain my 2 8000mAh lipos down to storage capacity - 3.8v's. I've accomplished that. Wonder if using the 4s 8000mAh bat. had anything to do with this crash today. I have been using my new 10c 6s 5200mAh lipos since they arrived a week or 2 ago. Another of toooo many variables. Makes me wonder if a single engine plane might not be less headache and cheaper ;-)
I will follow up with "dead weight" suggestion and let you know.
 
I used to fly RC gliders, but I found the instances where I had to make a decision in split-seconds that would either save the plane or lose it made the hobby less enjoyable than I hoped for. The thing about quads is that you have modes where a hand-off response stabilizes them in place. Planes are even faster.
I've been using 3mil copper foil on a couple of my quads. I don't know if it helped because I didn't do it to resolve a problem, but it's very light in small quantities and it can't hurt. I think aluminum foil works too, but someone said copper is a bit better.
It would be interesting to see if you ever experience the failure with a 6S battery. I can't surmise why a 4S would cause or contribute to the problem unless maybe one or more cells was malfunctioning.
 
Well....it's off to bed shortly. Spent much of the late afternoon and evening tinkering with the quad. A number of different folk have mentioned how my "set up" is - in essence, where I've placed naza, pmu, RC rx, gcu/mini iOSD, Vtx....etc. So, I've been researching other photos of completed F450's to see if there is a common denominator - so to speak - and then proceeded to move my pieces to match those set ups. I also soldered onto the main board the UBEC - which has one of those "interference donuts" on it - output wires are wrapped around it a few times. So in the morning will head back to the same spot and see what comes with the changes. Let you know.
Will have to buy you a beer/ glass of wine...steak......something sometime to say a big Thank you!!
 
Bruce Simpson (RCModelReviews on YouTube) did a video on filtering power out of a BEC. It's worth a watch and actually most of Bruce's stuff is. The downside of the center-pad quads is that you don't have a lot of acreage to work with.
 
Know Bruce/RCModelReviews well. Have a number of his "How To" videos saved on my youtube channel. I spent Thurs. evening revamping my setup - moving what I could move (to spots that I've seen in other "build videos") in hopes of less interference from wires, etc. AND installed the UBEC as the power source for Vtx/camera. The weather has not been cooperative yesterday or today - Hopefully tomorrow I'll have an opportunity to take it out and test its stability and descent from altitude.
 
Hello Hugh.....hope this finds you well.........So, I think (really hope) just about there......I've moved away from 5.8ghz for fpv - of course AFTER I researched and made all the 5.8 purchases THEN I find other info that tells me why my fpv system wasnt working so well ( poor distance and signal loss). I live in wooded, hilly area.....your note about using 1.2ghz stuck with me so I'm awaiting my final small wiring purchases to finish connecting antennas (IBCrazy CP cloverleaf for both Tx & Rx AND a crosshair high gain antenna - also bought a diversity control and tripod to make a ground station for antenna's/Rx's - using the Lawmate R1200 Rx...actually 2 of them. Finally I picked up a pair of the Skyzone Fpv goggles to go along with everything else.
Now, with all the videos I've been collecting, I'm noticing the GoPro Studio software is running really slowly on my computer - it may be time to take the computer in and have it cleaned up, increase memory and speed because I plan to play a lot with the videos.
Thanks again for your input and assistance. Hope all goes well with you.
Keep me posted with anything new you might find that improves our flying passion......I'll do the same :-)
Robert
 
It sounds like you're having fun there.
Yes, 5.8GHz provides less range for the same power than 1.2GHz, and doesn't penetrate trees well, or buildings really at all. My 1watt 1.2GHz tx is a beast, and even my 1/2 watt transmitter gives me everything I need. I also use CP antennas. I'm looking at buying a light stand that is used in photography to hold my receiver & antenna up. They are on Amazon for around $20. They are cheap because they are not stable enough to use for cameras, only lights. I just want it light weight and cheap.

I don't remember if you're on PC or MAC, but I know PCs do get bogged down over time, and usually just a rebuild on the same hardware makes a big difference. Also adding a solid state drive is a good upgrade for speed.

I got a MinimOSD from Banggood last week. Haven't had time to wire it in. I'll put that on my Alien, and I'll run the 3DR telemetry radios and Teensy 3.1 conversion to FrSky telemetry on my other large quad. Lots of bench time needed, but it's been too hot here to spend time in my shop.
 
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