Any help appreciated for first build

[Jc803]

Hi guys and thanks for reading this. My main and only hobby has always been building drag race cars from the ground up, but for Christmas my father bought my brother and I some cheap $70 drones (is that the proper name for these?) with an extremely cheap camera. I couldnt tell you the name of it because I wanted to see how high it could go and the wind blew it out of range (about 75 ft) and its now on top of a tree.

I very much enjoyed it for the 2 days I had it. Which lead me to looking for another, which lead to youtube reviews, which led to home built units, which led to me driving to hobby stores and researching online all day.

From building cars I have some skills that I believe could help me, and also every tool imaginable. Fabricating a frame naturally will be easy and have welders needed for aluminum, precise cutting tools, more for balancing weight, everything needed for soldering and crimping wires, and have a little computer programming know how (tuning power control/transmission control modules on electronically fuel injected engines).

Basically I'm wanting to build something fast and powerful with a very long range on both the unit and video and also decent battery life. If I had to put everything in order of importance to me it would be...
1. Range of unit and video. While looking at the high end store bought units I saw one that claims a distance of 3.2 miles. I dont know if thats true but if that is possible I want it.
2. Speed. I want to build something very fast. If it would be better to have 6 or 8 rotors let me know what you think.
3. Battery life. At least 15 minutes would be great. I dont mind keeping multiple batteries on hand and changing them out.
4. And least important being cost. I fully understand you cant have a reliable 1,000 horsepower car for $15,000, so I dont expect to have a great unit for cheap either. Not saying I want to spend $2,000 to build something. But hundreds or even $1,000 seems reasonable to me. In the racing world we have a saying, "Cheap, fast, reliable, pick two" because its impossible to have all three.

I'll also note that I already own a Go Pro Hero 4 Black that I use on the cars. If there is a way to increase the range further than the wifi range that would be good. If there is a way to increase range to like a mile that would be perfect. But I'm ok with buying a different camera if needed.

So if anyone has any info that could help me that would be great. I am still researching everything so I dont want to sound like I'm saying "just give me a parts list". Just the names of proven brands or good websites for parts or anything like that would help. Thanks

 

[ringolong]

And so now the fun begins for you! Welcome to the hobby that will consume all of your time

You may want to start with a smaller quad to get the hang of it. It will save you some cash and many headaches if you do.

It looks like you are wanting a 250mm racing fpv quad.

http://www.builtdrones.com/immersio...mZWOC4hoh_5IMuBM2aZkGmzxrf5jqtxdZIhoCai7w_wcB

Here is a neat site that I found to help you pick the parts you want.
http://blog.oscarliang.net/250-mini-quad-part-list-fpv/

 

[Jc803]

Thanks, and trust me I want this to consume all my time. I'm averaging $14,000 per year on my drag racing hobby and working on that project every weekend just to race 4 times per year. This hobby could possibly be my savior.

Those links are a huge help so thank you very much. "FPV" was the first term I learned today lol. Slowly making progress.

 

[ringolong]

List all of the parts if you decide on building one. There are many members here that can give input on your choices.

 

[Jackson]

drones (is that the proper name for these?)

It's a losing battle but many prefer a more accurate description. My toys are all quadcopters. My scratch build is a tricopter. An all around term would be multirotor.

Unfortunately Quadcopter101 a rather lazy and unprepared reviewer, insisted on calling them drones and just recently the FliteTest folks have joined the bandwagon.

Welcome aboard, hopefully you'll stick around and share a few tidbits with us.

 

[Jc803]

Ok so I placed my first order to get me started. Spent all day yesterday and today learning as much as I could. I for sure could learn a lot more before I purchased parts but I'm too impatient. As of the last 7 hours I've been researching FPV equipment. If anyone wants to add to my list of things I've already bought go right ahead, and any input on FPV stuff is even better. All I know is I want at least 1 mile for video and RC control.

So far I have bought...
FrSky 2.4GHz ACCST TARANIS X9D PLUS
X8R Digital Telemetry Radio System (receiver)
A250 Carbon Fibre Racing Frame
Scorpion M-2204-2300KV Brushless Outrunner Motor (2cw, 2ccw)
(10x) 5x4.5 propellers
CC3D Revolution flight controller with 433mhz oplink
Turnigy Multistar 20A V2 Slim BLHeli Multi-Rotor Brushless ESC 2-6S
(3x) Turnigy nano-tech 1800mah 4S 65~130C Lipo Pack
Super Mini Power Distribution Board w/Twin BEC (5V/12V)

And I also got a bunch of little things like xt30 connectors, bullet connectors, flight controller mount, tie downs, battery straps, stuff like that.

Have a couple questions though.
1. I saw there was a CC3D, then the CC3D Revo. I cant figure out what the 433mhz oplink is or what its for. Cant find any answers anywhere. Although the Revo was more expensive, I got it anyway just in case whatever that is might be something I might use.

2. What do you guys think the range on that FrSky controller and receiver is? Cant find any info on that either. And if its not at least 1 mile, what do you have to do to make it go further? I've seen the Dragonlink stuff and people flying like 100km away, but I dont need anything that extreme. Just 1 mile on both control and video would make me happy. 2 miles would be even better, but thats its.

 

[ringolong]

The motors are only 3s so the 4s battery would likely be too much and destroy them.

Same radio I have (good choice, it Rocks!) and the rx I use on my tarot 680, but I would recommend the d4rii with ppm with the Naze32 which has built in telemetry for the Taranis for a lighter and faster 250mm. (same as mine, but you can do this later since you already ordered

I use xt60 connectors on mine, not sure if the xt30 will handle the current draw. They came on my 3s tattu batteries so they may be ok, but I replaced them with xt60.

1. I think the revo has gps.
2. I have had mine out 1/2 a mile without issues, but it all depends on where you are flying at due to interferences. People usually do not fly the 250mm out that far since the dragon link would be extra weight and shorten your flight time dramatically.

Have you looked at chargers yet?

The longer range products are usually mounted on slower larger craft like 500mm +.

Here is a video I shot with a 500mm I used to have, its not as fast a 250, but it took good video.

 

[Jc803]

They seemed to be the best motors on HobbyKing, but they didnt have any 4s motors. I only bought them because I wanted to buy everything from the same website just to get me going. But whats a good website to get 4s motors? Also what size ESCs do you recommend? The ones I bought are 20 gauge but after searching around I see a lot of people are using 30 gauge even with 3s motors and batteries.

Glad to hear the radio and receiver is good. Thats the one thing I didnt want to skimp on with price because thats the one thing I dont want to have to buy twice. Now when you say "the d4rii with ppm with the Naze32" you're speaking another language. I understand the Naze 32 is a flight controller but not the rest. And in the description of the rx and tx it says it has telemetry. So what do you mean by the other has it built in? Hell, I dont even fully understand what telemetry means.

In that video are you using the same controller and rx? If so anything done to it to get that range? I've seen videos of people using stuff like wifi boosters and satellite receivers but none of it makes sense to me. And it seems inconsistent. One video a guy used a wifi booster and got a extra 20ft, then a different guy used one and got an extra 5km.

I'll get some xt60 connectors. Didnt even realize there was a such thing but good to know.

From in the descriptions the difference between the CC3D and CC3D Revolution is the Revo has magnetometer, gyroscopic, accelerometer and pressure sensors. But it also has "Integrated 433Mhz OPLink". No idea what that is or does. Has a built in thing for an antenna.

I've looked at chargers but dont understand the differences in all of them. In my Amazon cart I have
Combo Special: Tenergy TB6-B Balance Charger for NiMH/NiCD/Li-PO/Li-Fe Battery Packs + Power Supply
Here is the link
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_6&smid=A3IAN4VN1Q26HU

Havent bought it yet. But what would you recommend? And how can I charge multiple batteries at a time? Or is that a bad idea? I know they have to be exactly the same to charge at the same time, just dont know whats a good charging system.

I know better long range stuff needed for FPV is heavier and uses more batties/power. I'm going to buy both. Figured I cant go wrong with the lightweight/close range set up that I'll use for actually racing and stuff. Its finding a quality longer range set it I'm having trouble with. And I'd like to have that for when I'm just messing around.

When I said I want FPV capable of a mile or 2 I dont mean I'll actually fly that far. I just live in SC and its nothing but woods here. Figured if something is capable of a couple miles in clear skies then it would counter the trees and stuff hoping to actually only get 1/8 or 1/4 mile.

 

[ringolong]

The charger that you have in your cart is a 5 amp charger, most batteries will charge at a 5c rating which means that if you have a 1000mah battery that can handle a 5c charge rate then you can charge it at 5 amps, so if you had 3 1000mah, and wanted to charge them all at the same time at a 5c rating then you would need a 15amp charger. The batteries that you ordered have an 8c max charge rating. To charge them all at the same time at max charge rate you would need 8c x 1800 mah = 43 amps! Of course you would want to charge somewhere below max for longer battery life. I usually stick with 3c for my larger more expensive batteries, and charge at 5c for the cheaper ones.

Here is a pic of my charging setup (Thats 2 900watt power supplies wired in series to deliver 25 volts at 75 amps)


I fly t-motor, but these will be my next motors, and they are good for 3s or 4s power. You can research cobra motors too.

The x8r does have telemetry, but its a large receiver, and I use it on my 680mm hex since size and weight does not matter on it. The naze32 communicates the battery voltage to the d4rii which delivers it to your radio for you to hear or read so you know when you need to land.

Here are the specs from the one you seen in the video.
Frame: Diatone Reptile 500
Motors: T-Motor MT2216 900kv
Flight Controller: Naza V2
Gimbal: Dji Zenmuse H3-3D
Gopro Hero 3 black
10x5 Graupner props
Hobby King F30 flashed with BLHeli 13
Zippy 5000mah 30c 4S
Taranis plus

Nothing has been performed to increase the stock range. I was using an immersion 600watt vtx for the video feed.

I recommend the headplay hds for goggles. I had fatshark, but sold them once I got the headplays.

I think I covered all of your questions

 

[Jc803]

You sure did answer everything. I'm currently watching a video comparing the X8R and DR4-II. Pretty much saying exactly what you have told me, guess I just needed to see it.
You have me convinced on the DR4-II and NAZE32, so I'm going to go ahead and buy those.
Also going to look into the motors you've mentioned and the Cobras and buy those too.
Thanks for explaining the battery chargers to me before I bought that one.
I guess you did miss the 20amp ESC question but I think I'm going to go ahead and buy some 30AMP ESCs

And I've been thinking, since I want a lightweight close range FPV system, and a long range, plus I'm going to have extra motors, ESCs, flight controller, and X8R rx, I'm just going to build two multicopers. One for racing, one for long range and video recording. Seems the expensive stuff is the remote control, batteries, chargers, and goggles. Once those expensive long term purchases are made making a second multi copter seems like chump change. I'm already halfway there with all the parts I've already purchased but not going to use.

Thank you so much for all your help. Hopefully the next time I post on here I'll be flying.

 

[ringolong]

Look at the motor charts to see how much amperage the motors will draw with the props that you will be using. This will show you what amperage you need to cover the current draw for the motor and prop combination.

This is from the emax motors, the cobra, and t-motors will most likely differ a little from these. I use 12 amp for my t-motors, but would likely get 18 or 20 for the emax racing motors.

 

[Jc803]

First off, does anyone order through HobbyKing? I placed two orders through them, probably about $800 between both orders, and I can tell you I'm already done with those guys. Seriously. Strike one was simply the time it takes them just to ship orders. I placed two more orders through ReadyMadeRC 3 and 4 days after my orders with HobbyKing and the parts still arrived a day sooner. Strike 2 is I ordered a battery charger through them and the power cable was completely wrong. And I dont mean the wall outlet end, that would be reasonable since they ship parts globally, but no, the end to the charger itself was wrong. Strike 3 is I ordered a FrSky Taranis Plus and there was a part in the box with just a hole where something was supposed to be. Looked at the packing list FrSky included and its supposed to be a battery charger. Then searching the web I found youtube videos where people who also ordered through HobbyKing had the same problem and apparently the guys at HobbyKing are taking them out and not letting anyone know. Strike 4 was I paid for a Naze32, it was in the packing list, but I never got it. Never again will I order through those people.

So anyway. I built my first quadcopter and its flying. I've only hovered it in my living room but so far its doing great. I spent the extra time and shortened all the wires and re-soldered everything. Have to finish up a few things and still have to mount the FPV gear. Tested all that off the quad and got it working.

Tonight I'm going to start building the second quad. I pretty much ordered two of everything but different stuff if that makes sense. That way I can see for myself what set ups I like best. For example between the two I'm making I'll be testing CC3D vs Naza32, linear ESC vs opto, $130 camera vs $25 camera, 200mw tx vs 400mw, ground rx vs fatshark built in rx, different sizes and brands of props, stuff like that. Once I figure out just what I like I'll build a 3rd quad with everything I like.

 

[ringolong]

I have ordered a ton of stuff from Hobby King without error. Sorry you had this kind of service from them.


Good job on getting your first quad in the air