Best Motor for build
- Thread starter binarynut
- Start date
Hugh Hemington
Well-Known Member
You haven't given us much to go on here.
It's a good idea to include links to what you're looking at. I found the frame http://www.wtotoy.com/hj-6504-carbon-fiber-folding-four-axis-quadcopter-aircraft-frame-kit-en.html but at $78 it's pretty pricey for a 650 spider quad frame. WtoToys recommends http://www.wtotoy.com/hj5005-kv800-disk-brushless-outrunner-motor-for-multicopter-4-pcs.html
at 800kv (out of stock) or
http://www.wtotoy.com/f4006-kv950-disk-brushless-outrunner-motor-for-rc-multicopter.html
at 950kv.
Did you get your 680kv motor recommendation from DealExtreme? (they charge $103 for the frame)
Where are you getting this stuff? Are you motivated to get everything from one source?
The F4006 motor is a "pancake" style that may or may not have mounts or prop holder! It and the 950kv recommended above have open bottoms that let dirt and debris get in the windings. The other number doesn't reference anything specific.
Here's another tip: Don't buy any motor you have to use a "grub nut" on. That's a shaft clamp arrangement; sort of like how a drill holds a drill bit. What you want is a motor where the prop mount is screwed to the top of the outrunner body with three or four screws. You want the shaft itself to be irrelevant as that eliminates a major component of imbalance.
Even with the same kv value, some motors are designed to run 2S to 4S or more, while others "require" 3S or something else. Personally, I'd say you should buy SunnySky motors, at 680kv or close. I have a set of 720kv SunnySky motors that are outstanding, and would work fine on this 650 quad with 11 or 12" props, a 4S battery and 30amp ESCs (I recommend anything with SimonK firmware).
What is the rest of your parts list? Let's refine it and get this thing in the air.
It's a good idea to include links to what you're looking at. I found the frame http://www.wtotoy.com/hj-6504-carbon-fiber-folding-four-axis-quadcopter-aircraft-frame-kit-en.html but at $78 it's pretty pricey for a 650 spider quad frame. WtoToys recommends http://www.wtotoy.com/hj5005-kv800-disk-brushless-outrunner-motor-for-multicopter-4-pcs.html
at 800kv (out of stock) or
http://www.wtotoy.com/f4006-kv950-disk-brushless-outrunner-motor-for-rc-multicopter.html
at 950kv.
Did you get your 680kv motor recommendation from DealExtreme? (they charge $103 for the frame)
Where are you getting this stuff? Are you motivated to get everything from one source?
The F4006 motor is a "pancake" style that may or may not have mounts or prop holder! It and the 950kv recommended above have open bottoms that let dirt and debris get in the windings. The other number doesn't reference anything specific.
Here's another tip: Don't buy any motor you have to use a "grub nut" on. That's a shaft clamp arrangement; sort of like how a drill holds a drill bit. What you want is a motor where the prop mount is screwed to the top of the outrunner body with three or four screws. You want the shaft itself to be irrelevant as that eliminates a major component of imbalance.
Even with the same kv value, some motors are designed to run 2S to 4S or more, while others "require" 3S or something else. Personally, I'd say you should buy SunnySky motors, at 680kv or close. I have a set of 720kv SunnySky motors that are outstanding, and would work fine on this 650 quad with 11 or 12" props, a 4S battery and 30amp ESCs (I recommend anything with SimonK firmware).
What is the rest of your parts list? Let's refine it and get this thing in the air.
Hugh thanks for the reply.
I scan some Youtube videos and I found one that pretty much agrees with you,
I did order The 4x SunnySky 980kv motors
HJ-6504 Carbon Fiber Folding RC Quadcopter Frame Kit Four-axis Frame $77.99 - WtoToy
1047 Carbon Fiber Propeller CW/CCW Propellers for RC Quadcoptor Multi-rotors $20.56 - WtoToy
4x TAE-30A/30699 Turnigy AE-30A Brushless ESC (US Warehouse) = 50.60 - HobbyKing
I have a Blade BLH7901 controller board that I'm going to use, But at this point I'm not sure how the reciever cable will go to the TAE-30A ESC's will be wired in, the BLH7901 is actually used on 10Amp ESC's and I wiring it to 30Amp ESC's
I scan some Youtube videos and I found one that pretty much agrees with you,
I did order The 4x SunnySky 980kv motors
HJ-6504 Carbon Fiber Folding RC Quadcopter Frame Kit Four-axis Frame $77.99 - WtoToy
1047 Carbon Fiber Propeller CW/CCW Propellers for RC Quadcoptor Multi-rotors $20.56 - WtoToy
4x TAE-30A/30699 Turnigy AE-30A Brushless ESC (US Warehouse) = 50.60 - HobbyKing
I have a Blade BLH7901 controller board that I'm going to use, But at this point I'm not sure how the reciever cable will go to the TAE-30A ESC's will be wired in, the BLH7901 is actually used on 10Amp ESC's and I wiring it to 30Amp ESC's
Hugh Hemington
Well-Known Member
The amperage of the ESCs doesn't matter to the controller or receiver. The best picture I've found of the controller is this:
From that, it looks like the controller also does power distribution (tapping off for its own power). The blue connector goes to the battery (you'll probably need to change it), the bare copper tipped black wires are the ground leads to the ESCs and the covered red wires are the positive power leads to the ESCs. The twisted 3-conductor cables at one end went to the receiver (also powers the receiver), and the other end to the ESCs, but you'll probably need to convert them all to standard servo leads on the loose end to connect to a non-proprietary receiver and ESCs, and since the ESCs have male tips, you'll need to hack up four servo extensions to make that happen -- splicing the male ends to the INPUT end and female ends to the OUTPUT end.
I assume that separate board (in the picture) is the GPS module assuming you're parting out this quad: http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/350-qx2-ap-combo-rtf-with-safe-technology-BLH7900
You really must be attached to this controller, because you're going to go through a LOT of work to make it work with "regular" parts. The ESCs you specd. are not terminated on either end according to "Antonio" in the discussion area, so you'll be soldering those for power and motor control. But you'd have to change the black male tips on this controller for females even if the ESCs were terminated, and with the right size.
Is there no way you can just put the BLH7901 on a shelf and admire it? If you bought a new controller, your build would be a lot easier. I don't know what that controller does that is special, but chances are pretty good you could re-use that GPS on a different controller. Take a look at the HK Pilot Mega 2.7: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...USB_GYRO_ACC_MAG_BARO.html?strSearch=HK Pilot
You'd need to get power to the thing, but they have a power module that also enables telemetry. I bet it wouldn't be difficult to adapt the GPS, and you'd get waypoints and a lot of other functionality, including MUCH easier integration with your other parts.
RCTimer sells a similar board and power module -- the 2.5.2 ArduFlyer. I have both. On the lower end of the scale there is the KK2 or Naze32, but the KK doesn't support a GPS I think.
You're also going to need a battery and charger, unless you're bringing those over from the Blade.
From that, it looks like the controller also does power distribution (tapping off for its own power). The blue connector goes to the battery (you'll probably need to change it), the bare copper tipped black wires are the ground leads to the ESCs and the covered red wires are the positive power leads to the ESCs. The twisted 3-conductor cables at one end went to the receiver (also powers the receiver), and the other end to the ESCs, but you'll probably need to convert them all to standard servo leads on the loose end to connect to a non-proprietary receiver and ESCs, and since the ESCs have male tips, you'll need to hack up four servo extensions to make that happen -- splicing the male ends to the INPUT end and female ends to the OUTPUT end.
I assume that separate board (in the picture) is the GPS module assuming you're parting out this quad: http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/350-qx2-ap-combo-rtf-with-safe-technology-BLH7900
You really must be attached to this controller, because you're going to go through a LOT of work to make it work with "regular" parts. The ESCs you specd. are not terminated on either end according to "Antonio" in the discussion area, so you'll be soldering those for power and motor control. But you'd have to change the black male tips on this controller for females even if the ESCs were terminated, and with the right size.
Is there no way you can just put the BLH7901 on a shelf and admire it? If you bought a new controller, your build would be a lot easier. I don't know what that controller does that is special, but chances are pretty good you could re-use that GPS on a different controller. Take a look at the HK Pilot Mega 2.7: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...USB_GYRO_ACC_MAG_BARO.html?strSearch=HK Pilot
You'd need to get power to the thing, but they have a power module that also enables telemetry. I bet it wouldn't be difficult to adapt the GPS, and you'd get waypoints and a lot of other functionality, including MUCH easier integration with your other parts.
RCTimer sells a similar board and power module -- the 2.5.2 ArduFlyer. I have both. On the lower end of the scale there is the KK2 or Naze32, but the KK doesn't support a GPS I think.
You're also going to need a battery and charger, unless you're bringing those over from the Blade.
The amperage of the ESCs doesn't matter to the controller or receiver. The best picture I've found of the controller is this:
From that, it looks like the controller also does power distribution (tapping off for its own power). The blue connector goes to the battery (you'll probably need to change it), the bare copper tipped black wires are the ground leads to the ESCs and the covered red wires are the positive power leads to the ESCs. The twisted 3-conductor cables at one end went to the receiver (also powers the receiver), and the other end to the ESCs, but you'll probably need to convert them all to standard servo leads on the loose end to connect to a non-proprietary receiver and ESCs, and since the ESCs have male tips, you'll need to hack up four servo extensions to make that happen -- splicing the male ends to the INPUT end and female ends to the OUTPUT end.
I assume that separate board (in the picture) is the GPS module assuming you're parting out this quad: http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/350-qx2-ap-combo-rtf-with-safe-technology-BLH7900
You really must be attached to this controller, because you're going to go through a LOT of work to make it work with "regular" parts. The ESCs you specd. are not terminated on either end according to "Antonio" in the discussion area, so you'll be soldering those for power and motor control. But you'd have to change the black male tips on this controller for females even if the ESCs were terminated, and with the right size.
Is there no way you can just put the BLH7901 on a shelf and admire it? If you bought a new controller, your build would be a lot easier. I don't know what that controller does that is special, but chances are pretty good you could re-use that GPS on a different controller. Take a look at the HK Pilot Mega 2.7: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__56052__HKPilot_Mega_2_7_Flight_Controller_USB_GYRO_ACC_MAG_BARO.html?strSearch=HK Pilot
You'd need to get power to the thing, but they have a power module that also enables telemetry. I bet it wouldn't be difficult to adapt the GPS, and you'd get waypoints and a lot of other functionality, including MUCH easier integration with your other parts.
RCTimer sells a similar board and power module -- the 2.5.2 ArduFlyer. I have both. On the lower end of the scale there is the KK2 or Naze32, but the KK doesn't support a GPS I think.
You're also going to need a battery and charger, unless you're bringing those over from the Blade.
I not concerned about the changing of the battery wiring, my only concern is getting the Three wires from the BLH7901 reciever to the ESC's wired correctly. I can't seem to get any info about the three wires and what their signals are coming off the controller board.
The reason I want stick with this controller board is so I can fly a Blade 350QX and the New built Quad off of a Spektrum DX6 radio I just bought.
The reason I want stick with this controller board is so I can fly a Blade 350QX and the New built Quad off of a Spektrum DX6 radio I just bought.
Hugh Hemington
Well-Known Member
As far as flying two quads on one radio, you can just buy a Spectrum (compatible) receiver for the 2nd quad and use ANY controller. There are lots of DSM2 compatible receivers out there. Here's one: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...2_4Ghz_Receiver_w_Failsafe_US_Warehouse_.html
It's $14. I wouldn't take on this modification job to save $50! And I don't actually think the receiver IS integrated on that controller, otherwise there wouldn't be input leads on it too.
As for the connections:
You connect the three control leads (brown, red and orange servo wires below on left) to the correct OUTPUT channels on the controller. Again, that will require you adapt to those mini-JST wires/connectors (and you'll have to know which side of the controller is INPUT, and which is OUTPUT.
Connect TWO wires from the power distribution (in this case, the controller) to the ESCs. Since they aren't control wires, any red and any black can go to any ESC. (see the red and black extending out of the left side below)
Then the three wires extending out the right side of each ESC connect to the three motor wires. Usually they are somewhat color coded, but the ones you chose seem to be all blue.
You cannot connect those three in a damaging way, so just solder them to the three motor wires and if any motor doesn't spin the direction it's supposed to, you reverse any two wires leading to that motor. Normally, a controller that is pre-configured for an 'X'-copter is expecting the opposing motors to spin the same direction, so you have one CW and one CCW in front, and in back, but reversed in back. If you think about it, this makes sense, because you have to be able to keep the quad in the air while rotating on its center axis (yaw) which can only happen if you slow one pair of motors turning one way, letting the other pair pull it around.
I recommend using shrink tubing when soldering the motor and ESC power leads. Feel free to shrink the black and red joins as soon as you're done -- you won't need to open those connections. But only reduce the tubing on one wire on each ESC/motor and leave the other two expanded but maybe held in place with electrical tape so you can easily swap them. Then when you get the rotation correct, shrink the remaining ones to finish the job. SunnySky motors generally do not come terminated, but have nice long wires, so you'd have to solder something even if you bought ESCs with 3.5mm bullets.
Set your controller in position, see how far those red and black wires on the controller and ESCs will extend and try to position the ESCs out on the arms (zip-tied down), then mount the motors and bring the wires to the ESC wires, cutting off the excess motor wire leaving a little slack. In other words, you want the ESCs as far from the controller as you can comfortably get them (as they emit RF noise) and no loops of spare wire out on the arms.
Now, which motors the controller expects to turn clockwise is going to be a puzzle and it matters because the controller will expect to throttle up one opposing pair to yaw left, and the other to yaw right. You may be able to find it on YouTube, or info on servicing the "Blade" quad you got this controller from, but then you'd still have to figure out which ESC connection on the board went to which corner of the Blade. If you can't find the information, just wire them as I suggested, and if yaw (rudder) is reversed, reverse that channel on the radio or reverse a pair of wires on all four motors.
It's $14. I wouldn't take on this modification job to save $50! And I don't actually think the receiver IS integrated on that controller, otherwise there wouldn't be input leads on it too.
As for the connections:
You connect the three control leads (brown, red and orange servo wires below on left) to the correct OUTPUT channels on the controller. Again, that will require you adapt to those mini-JST wires/connectors (and you'll have to know which side of the controller is INPUT, and which is OUTPUT.
Connect TWO wires from the power distribution (in this case, the controller) to the ESCs. Since they aren't control wires, any red and any black can go to any ESC. (see the red and black extending out of the left side below)
Then the three wires extending out the right side of each ESC connect to the three motor wires. Usually they are somewhat color coded, but the ones you chose seem to be all blue.
You cannot connect those three in a damaging way, so just solder them to the three motor wires and if any motor doesn't spin the direction it's supposed to, you reverse any two wires leading to that motor. Normally, a controller that is pre-configured for an 'X'-copter is expecting the opposing motors to spin the same direction, so you have one CW and one CCW in front, and in back, but reversed in back. If you think about it, this makes sense, because you have to be able to keep the quad in the air while rotating on its center axis (yaw) which can only happen if you slow one pair of motors turning one way, letting the other pair pull it around.
I recommend using shrink tubing when soldering the motor and ESC power leads. Feel free to shrink the black and red joins as soon as you're done -- you won't need to open those connections. But only reduce the tubing on one wire on each ESC/motor and leave the other two expanded but maybe held in place with electrical tape so you can easily swap them. Then when you get the rotation correct, shrink the remaining ones to finish the job. SunnySky motors generally do not come terminated, but have nice long wires, so you'd have to solder something even if you bought ESCs with 3.5mm bullets.
Set your controller in position, see how far those red and black wires on the controller and ESCs will extend and try to position the ESCs out on the arms (zip-tied down), then mount the motors and bring the wires to the ESC wires, cutting off the excess motor wire leaving a little slack. In other words, you want the ESCs as far from the controller as you can comfortably get them (as they emit RF noise) and no loops of spare wire out on the arms.
Now, which motors the controller expects to turn clockwise is going to be a puzzle and it matters because the controller will expect to throttle up one opposing pair to yaw left, and the other to yaw right. You may be able to find it on YouTube, or info on servicing the "Blade" quad you got this controller from, but then you'd still have to figure out which ESC connection on the board went to which corner of the Blade. If you can't find the information, just wire them as I suggested, and if yaw (rudder) is reversed, reverse that channel on the radio or reverse a pair of wires on all four motors.
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Well I will have the Frame in my hands this coming week, and looking forward to the assembly, have all the Parts in my hands
I ordered some CCW prop adapters for the SunnySky x2212 II 980kv motors and the three holes for the mounting to motors where not drilled properly and I can't mount them. I have been trying to contact the company I ordered them from, but they won't return my calls or email, I even sent them a picture of the ccw and cw adapters that came with motor to show them how the mounting holes were drilled, I guess I will have to take a chance and order them from another company, they were SunnySky parts and it worries me that I will have the same problem with another company.
Another question, can you mount two batteries in Parallel on a quad copter ?
I would think you can.
OH WELL !!!!
I ordered some CCW prop adapters for the SunnySky x2212 II 980kv motors and the three holes for the mounting to motors where not drilled properly and I can't mount them. I have been trying to contact the company I ordered them from, but they won't return my calls or email, I even sent them a picture of the ccw and cw adapters that came with motor to show them how the mounting holes were drilled, I guess I will have to take a chance and order them from another company, they were SunnySky parts and it worries me that I will have the same problem with another company.
Another question, can you mount two batteries in Parallel on a quad copter ?
I would think you can.
OH WELL !!!!
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Hugh Hemington
Well-Known Member
The SunnySky motors should have come with "Nylock" nuts. Just use those on the prop adapters that were supplied. They'll be fine.
If you didn't get the lock nuts, take a motor or prop adapter to the hardware store and get a few to fit the thread. And make sure you have whatever socket you need on a ratchet! You'll be removing the props often for safety and it gets tedious when using a spanner.
You can mount batteries in parallel, but I think you're better off mounting one 10,000mah than 2 5,000mah lipos. People who do it usually do it to resolve space or balance issues. With the low-C HobbyKing batteries, you might be better off since they save weight, and would combine their discharge in parallel.
If you didn't get the lock nuts, take a motor or prop adapter to the hardware store and get a few to fit the thread. And make sure you have whatever socket you need on a ratchet! You'll be removing the props often for safety and it gets tedious when using a spanner.
You can mount batteries in parallel, but I think you're better off mounting one 10,000mah than 2 5,000mah lipos. People who do it usually do it to resolve space or balance issues. With the low-C HobbyKing batteries, you might be better off since they save weight, and would combine their discharge in parallel.
Hugh what I was referring to on the Motors was the Three mounting holes on the prop adapter, on the CCW adapters I had purchased separatley from the motors, the holes in the adapters were drilled improperly and I can't mount the adapters to the motors. and the company I purchased them from won't respond to my emails or phone calls.
I tried to upload a picture of the CW and CCW adapters to show you what I was speaking about, but this sight won't let me upload a 1.2mb picture.
Do they really make a 10,000mah 11.1v battery ?
I tried to upload a picture of the CW and CCW adapters to show you what I was speaking about, but this sight won't let me upload a 1.2mb picture.
Do they really make a 10,000mah 11.1v battery ?
Hugh Hemington
Well-Known Member
Plug your specs into eCalc and start playing with all up weight. With the right props they'll "carry" it all. The question is, for how long?
PixelPusher
New Member
binarynut, did you find a fix for your misaligned proper adapter holes? I have the same problem. Google brought me here.
Thanks guys for responding, I didn't know I had all these email responds on this subject, i just got my first reply today by email from Quadcopters.com .
I have finally got the QuadCopter completely built.
Sunnysky 2212 980kv motors
Turnigy AE30A ESC's
Got it all wired up to a Power dist board.
ZeroUAV.com Gemini-M Flight Controller, and it is suppose to be controlled and programmed by a Android cell phone and also operated by a Fatuba T8FG radio which I just ordered.
The Wtotoy Frame is all Carbon Fiber, that is why it so expensive.
I haven't got it in flight yet, the user manual is so dam confusing to understand, it was compiled by a Chinese to English and trying to understand what he is saying to get it to fly using the Android phone is next to impossible.
This controller is supposed to be the Top of the line in controllers, and many people swear by it.
http://zerouav.com/en/Product/chanpinxilieyi/837.html
I wanted to upload some pictures but it won't accept because they were to large.
I have finally got the QuadCopter completely built.
Sunnysky 2212 980kv motors
Turnigy AE30A ESC's
Got it all wired up to a Power dist board.
ZeroUAV.com Gemini-M Flight Controller, and it is suppose to be controlled and programmed by a Android cell phone and also operated by a Fatuba T8FG radio which I just ordered.
The Wtotoy Frame is all Carbon Fiber, that is why it so expensive.
I haven't got it in flight yet, the user manual is so dam confusing to understand, it was compiled by a Chinese to English and trying to understand what he is saying to get it to fly using the Android phone is next to impossible.
This controller is supposed to be the Top of the line in controllers, and many people swear by it.
http://zerouav.com/en/Product/chanpinxilieyi/837.html
I wanted to upload some pictures but it won't accept because they were to large.
PixelPusher
New Member
You can try using http://imgur.com/ to upload your photos. Then post the links to them here. They allow large photo uploads.
I'm still interested in hearing/seeing how you solved your prop adapters on the SunnySky motors.
I'm still interested in hearing/seeing how you solved your prop adapters on the SunnySky motors.
See pictures here;
http://imgur.com/L46R8S8
http://imgur.com/axcHctP
http://imgur.com/zSlTHxf
I'm using the prop adapters that came with SunnySky motors 5mm studs w/nuts.
http://imgur.com/L46R8S8
http://imgur.com/axcHctP
http://imgur.com/zSlTHxf
I'm using the prop adapters that came with SunnySky motors 5mm studs w/nuts.
On the prop adapters,are you asking about the holes being off compared to motor Mount ?
I called the company in Columbus, Ohio and sent pictures and BuddyHobby said they didn't see an problems.
This was on the CCW adapters.
I also sent pictues to SmallPartsCNC.com and he said that could see what I pointed out, about the three mounting holes were drilled off and agreed.
He said that the way the adapter way made I could drill the holes to 1/8" and it then it would work
I called the company in Columbus, Ohio and sent pictures and BuddyHobby said they didn't see an problems.
This was on the CCW adapters.
I also sent pictues to SmallPartsCNC.com and he said that could see what I pointed out, about the three mounting holes were drilled off and agreed.
He said that the way the adapter way made I could drill the holes to 1/8" and it then it would work