simulators for drone racing

Gyro Doctor

Gyro Doctor

Electronics Tech for over 45 years
... The question isn't which drone will work with simulators, but which radio.
I fly either of two simulators with the Taranis X9D+, which is arguably one of the best radios out there,
using a Toshiba laptop running Windows 10.
"FPV Freerider" is a good choice and "Liftoff" (my favorite) are both quadcopter simulators which,
after some tweaking of the response parameters, offer realistic flying characteristics that will closely resemble
your actual setup. Of course you can always tune the simulators to be "hotter" than your actual quad
and after becoming proficient in them your actual flying time with your quad might even seem rather tame. ;)
 
R

Randy2747

Member
Thx Gyro Doctor,

I really appreciate it the help guess I will do some surfing on Amazon and Google and look for a good deal on Tara's X9D+ right now.

Which drone would you recommend me to buy the Eachine 250 pro or storm srd240 Hex?


Thx Again,
Randy
 
Gyro Doctor

Gyro Doctor

Electronics Tech for over 45 years
I haven't any actual flying time with either of those, but between that choice, I'd go with the 250 Pro.
Of note is that it's hard to compare hexes and quads (apples to oranges). I recommend first, to stick with
quads and secondly, to stick with 250 class quads. As you grow into this hobby you'll find this to be the
mainstream category for most everything.

It's important to note that there's opposing opinions on how best to gain flying skills for piloting quads.
The general consensus is that one should learn on cheap quads because it's less costly when you crash,
and YOU WILL crash .... A LOT. However, preferring to not so easily grow out of my investments, I always
get at least "intermediate" if not "experienced only" (super hot rod) items and simply detune their performance
until I'm "up to speed" and able to handle them in all their high performance glory. I've been through many electric
and gas powered street race cars, off-road cars, airplanes, helicopters, to now finally quads (electric only of course)
and I've always gone for "high end" products straight from the beginning. I must say FPV quads are by far my favorite hobby.

I don't think the Taranis is directly compatible with Eachines, but you can always either add the modules into the back
compartment of a Taranis to make it control just about anything or (as I'd personally do) swap out the Eachine's RX.
Also I'd recommend buying some really good ESCs too, because the ones that come in Eachines suck.
 
R

Randy2747

Member
Thank you both for the help I am completely new to the race drones and sorry for all the questions.

I would like to go. Ahead and get the Taranis transmitter so I can use it with the simulator and also have a decent controller when I do start flying. Gyro Doctor you mentioned that you don't think eachines directly compatible but I could make it work. What 250 class drones is compatible with Taranis I would like to start with basics first and something pretty simple to figure out instead of trying to make controller work and replacing esc. I figure down the road if I like it I will want to learn to fix and build a drone.... Or several
 
Gyro Doctor

Gyro Doctor

Electronics Tech for over 45 years
You might also want to take a look at the new Taranis QX7 transmitter too, it's about half the price of the X9D+ and uses the same
"Open TX" software. There's less switches, knobs, and functions on it but it still keeps the core features that make Taranis radios so
popular and would also be a good choice for any quadcopter radio. I still like my X9D+ because it has more gadgetry than I can use on
even my most complex RC airplane models, but you really don't need all that extra capability for flying quadcopters.
I haven't delved into it (the QX7) that much but I do know it still has USB connectivity and at least similar Open TX software, so it should
work flawlessly with any simulators, but that's not proven that I know of.

As far as compatibility issues (radio/quad) are concerned, there are countless options for quads out there and I honestly don't keep track of
what's what when it comes to which parts do or don't "play nice" with each other. I'm pretty sure that Eachine uses "Devo" protocol (Deviation)
and there IS a module you can plug into the X9D to talk to them (dunno if a QX7 allows for module use or not) or you can just drop almost any of the
FrySky (Taranis) receivers into the Eachine for about $20, just do yourself a favor and make sure whatever receiver you do choose has telemetry
capability (for "RSSI" which is a MAJOR bonus, as well as flight battery voltage, etc) to take advantage of Taranis' technology to help keep your quad safe.
A lot of receivers today at least have "fail safe" functions on them (including DEVOs) which will land or shut down your quad upon losing the signal from
the radio, whereas quite a lot of the cheaper quads (mostly with built-in receivers) will just fly away from you never to be seen again. I do know that
the Eachine 250 Pro DOES HAVE failsafe (of some sort) so at least let that put your mind at ease, but that feature may or may not be unlocked, depending on how the i6 radio (think that's the one you'll get) was flashed. Here's a thread talking about that aspect of the Eachine 250 (none Pro) just in case you ever need it: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2547939-Eachine-i6-transmitter

I believe Eachine (Spektrum ?) transmitters (at least the newer ones) are upgraded from the older Devo protocols and now use DSM2 or DSMX protocol (which is also for "Jr"s) and would therefore work with either simulator I've mentioned, but again I don't know that for sure.

Frankly, you are going to have quite a learning curve becoming familiar with terms, technology, and choices available to you in this hobby but (to me)
that's all part of the fun of it. If you aren't quite as "into it" when it comes to the "nuts and bolts" aspects of the hobby and just want to fly, then
just go with a radio that comes with your Eachine 250 pro and don't worry (too much) about it. ;)
 
R

Randy2747

Member
[QUOTE="Gyro Doctor[/QUOT



Thank you for all the information!!! It took a while for me to post a reply back to you because I had to goggle a lot from your message like RSSI,DSM2,DSMX protocol and trying to figure out what you was saying to me haha.

I noticed when I bought my Phantom 3 that I had a lot of learning to do. Just from asking a few questions about racers I have a lot more to learn!!! And you are correct this is the fun part of anything is research, study, and asking questions. I am the type of person that when I get into something I want to now how and why :)

I think I will stick with buying the Taranis XD9+. After you mentioned it I started to look around and this transmitter is has high reviews and preferred by many. I am not to worried about the price (not that I am rich lol) I just would rather not buy something cheap and not be happy with it and have to upgrade weeks/months later.

I do like the Eachine that you recommended so I believe I will get this racer

http://www.banggood.com/Eachine-Fal...700TVL-HD-Camera-5_8G-40CH-VTX-p-1069132.html


I will have plenty of time to research this module you spoke of to install in the eachine because I will practice on the simulator first.

Thanks a million Gyro Doctor its been VERY informative!!!
Cheers!
Randy
 
Last edited:
Gyro Doctor

Gyro Doctor

Electronics Tech for over 45 years
... The latest and greatest is usually better ... lol ... I've actually seen cases where whatever changes were made were NOT really better.
That being said though, THIS latest quad by Eachine gets a big "thumbs up" from me too ! :)

It has everything you need at a great price: Upgraded ESCs, a good F3 flight controller, decent motors, 4mm carbon arms, decent camera
driving a 200mw VTX, and a shitload of props (you'll need them ;)) PLUS there's really no point in paying for a radio and receiver
(like the previous kits reviewed) that you don't really want anyway.

While you're at it also get some antennas too, because those stock "sticks" are usually crap (seemed to work surprisingly well in the video though)
you definitely want some skewed planar, cloverleaf, or pagoda antennas though (speaking Greek again, I know ... lol ... more homework for you!)

My biggest words of advice are this:
1st) Fly (a lot) on the simulator (until you're good at it) before ever attempting to fly your new quad. I know, I know, it's incredibly tempting
to want to "take it out for a spin" and convince yourself "I'll be really careful and just take it easy", but consider how bad you'll feel smashing your
$200 investment the first day you fly it ! :eek: This is a RACER, not a Syma X5 or any other inherently stable toy type quad. It is going to be "twitchy",
VERY fast, and extremely scary (if not impossible) for an absolute novice to fly, so get plenty of practice flying time logged in with your simulator(s)
before even thinking about taking the Wizard on it's maiden flight.

2nd) DO NOT get used to flying in "Horizon Mode" or any of the self-stabilized modes of operation, it not only develops bad habits, but will also feel
like you're starting all over again from scratch when you do transition to "Rate Mode" or ACRO as most call it. Acro flying is both magnitudes more
difficult and more rewarding to master, YOU are in FULL control of the quad and there's no built in limits to what the quad will do when you command it.
It's ok when you're first starting out and just learning things like basic maneuvering and coordinated turns, but as soon as you get comfortable with those
you absolutely want to practice in acro mode only.

3rd) Start saving up for some goggles ! This is FPV (first person view) flying we're talking about after all and you can't do that without some way of seeing
what's going on from the camera in the quad's point of view. LOS (line of sight) flying is fine and will still help you develop the skills needed to become a good
quad pilot, but it's a whole new world once you've strapped a screen(s) over your face and really "become part of the quad"! :)
 
R

Randy2747

Member
I completely agree with you.... A few weeks ago I bought my first drone Phantom 3 advanced started watching videos and when I seen my first video of a quadcopter racing I figured I HAVE TO try that too!! (Looks like a lot of fun and a rush !) I got impatient jumped online and started looking looking at FPV drones to buy and then I realized they have simulator and that led me to this group to start asking questions. That's why I figured I would buy the taranis transmitter first and not get the racer till I feel I am pretty good one with the Simulator. Then I would reward myself with the Drone later. (I can always fly my P3A now.) Eventually when I get my racer I will fly line of sight for awhile then reward myself with the fat sharks

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/fatshark-dominator-hd3.html

Would you recommend these goggles?
If I bought everything all at once my girlfriend would probably get jealous that I'm spending a thousand dollars on my self and not diamonds for her lol.
 
Gyro Doctor

Gyro Doctor

Electronics Tech for over 45 years
... Those ARE the "Mac Daddy" goggles everybody slobbers over (man I wish I had your budget to throw at this hobby .. lol ..)
but that's a whole lot of money for just some empty goggles (they don't even come with a receiver!) and, unless you just like
"trendy" there are alternate choices that will (imho) give you a lot more bang for the buck, otherwise be prepared to plunk down
some additional money for the actual receiver you plug into it and also be sure it's compatible with the VTX (video transmitter)
that comes with your quad.

First, a little primer on cameras/VTX/goggles is in order:
The main thing you want in a camera setup is minimal latency, that is to say the least amount of delay in real time between what you see in the
goggles compared to what's actually happening where the quad is. It doesn't do you much good to have a super clear, wide format (more on that later),
crisp color image of the tree coming at you if you've already hit it by the time it got displayed in your goggles ... lmao ... THAT is why most recordings
you'll see of guys hauling ass through trees (and yes, it is definitely quite a rush) or around gnarly courses look like crap unless they're shot with an additional camera they've also mounted, like a Go-Pro or something). These little analog CMOS cameras aren't used for great picture quality, just speed.
That being said, anything more than about 700 lines is going to be trading latency for clarity (more lines = more data = more latency). Also worth considering is, even if you've got Super I-Max Ultra HD goggles but they're being fed a crap picture then what's the point ? It IS really nice for the simulators, playing video games, or watching movies where the signal quality that's fed to them will match their performance capability (which are NOT
really HD (that's just a marketing gimmick) they're only SVGA 800X600), but out in the field that ain't the case. Oh and nothing is in wide format either ... lol ... Soooo, just something to think about, it's up to you. :)

VTX power is important for zipping through trees (when even in close range) and when you're out at the end of the course even if there's no obstructions.
5.8 GHz is very reflective and likes to bounce around obstacles rather than punch through them, so the more power you start with before scattering
it about to finally get to you the better (up to a point). I've seen 25mW VTXs used (snicker) and huge 1W ones too, but 200-600mW is the average power range you'll usually find used. You can't exceed certain power levels in competition flying and there are also (mostly ignored) laws that limit max power allowed too, depending on where you live. So what's a guy to do ? Get the best antennas you can (high dB gain)!! Most anybody you see with one antenna
on their goggles is going to be sporting a "mushroom" antenna (skewed planar or clover leaf in a protective shell) If they have two they're using a "diversity" system. Diversity kicks ass because it's basically a twin system that switches to which ever antenna is picking up the best. The advantage here is you'd use one "mushroom" and one "patch" (planar) or a helical antenna then let the VRX (video receiver) pick the best signal. Any mushroom is omnidirectional but a planar or a helical is very focused into a narrow beam (at least compared to the others). In other words, the same 200mW power will be able reach out much further distances (and stronger through obstructions too) when using a focused beam (that's the EFFECT, it's actually the exact opposite in that it's the radio's reception ability that's being focused, not the radiation pattern of the VTX but let's not get overly technical). ;)

There you have it ... lol ... you can pay $500 for those goggles, then buy a receiver to put into those goggles, or maybe even buy an aftermarket add-on kit
that converts Fat Sharks to diversity (Google "LaForge" and/or "Furious" diversity kits) or maybe just get these instead:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/skyzone...rsity-32ch-receiver-with-head-tracker-v2.html
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/skyzone...rsity-32ch-receiver-with-head-tracker-v2.html
Fat Shark: 800X600 res @ 43 FOV vs Skyzone: 854X480 res @ 30 FOV
(no VRX at all) $500 plus ??? (built in diversity VRX) $350


You've got some more homework to do ! :D
 
Gyro Doctor

Gyro Doctor

Electronics Tech for over 45 years
That RX will work but I don't think it's full duplex and also I prefer my electronics in a case.
This is the one I use: http://m.banggood.com/FrSky-X8R-2_4G-8CH-SBUS-Smart-Port-Telemetry-Receiver-p-79386.html
I'm pretty sure the Taranis already has a low battery function built in. Make a noise? ... lol ... You can have it make a noise
if you want, or vibrate in your hands or even better yet TALK to you !

The female voice is ok that comes with it, but I swapped mine's voice for an even better (and sexier) sounding female voice
that is set up to jabber away at me with warnings ... lol ... oh, you can also have it talk like Yoda from Star Wars too if you'd like.

You are going to have A LOT of fun just learning all about the Taranis and what it can do without even needing a quad to have it control !
 
Gyro Doctor

Gyro Doctor

Electronics Tech for over 45 years
UPDATE: After due diligence in learning more about the XSR (new to me) I've learned that it DOES have
full telemetry and it WILL tell the Taranis it's RSSI, bat, etc. :rolleyes:

It never explicitly says that in the sales information (says full duplex but that doesn't necessarily mean RSSI capable), however after
some more reading elsewhere, I'm seeing that it is available through the smart port connector. The form factor on this tiny guy is only
26X19X5 compared to my X8R that's 47X27X14 !! AND it's 13 grams lighter !!! Pretty much changes my mind completely.
It won't have quite the range of the X8R (those weird looking antennas on the X8R give a 20% range increase over the older X8 or X4
with regular wire antennas) and some reviews hint to it having "about" the same range as the X4R, with some even stating it's a little less
than the X4, but as long as it still has RSSI that's worth it to me.

I might just leave the X8R in my JU87B Stuka and buy one of these XSRs for my next quad :cool:
Might even look into slapping some of those planar antennas onto the XSR and see what happens, time and money allowing ... lol ... also
after looking at the Wizard again and seeing the RX is internally mounted I'm less leery of it being "naked", so I would say it's an excellent
choice Randy :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top