Newb Very Concerned About Where Things Are Going With This Hobby.

[Skybird]

Hello everyone I am very new to the quad world and have yet to purchase my first bird, take a look at post on RTF if you got some ideas of what to recommend. I recently learned that soon if the FAA gets its way, drones including quads will have to be registered, I know there have been incidents like the Phantom that accidentally landed on the White House lawn, that has been referred to as "crashing" by the media and sensationalizing something that was harmless, and other alleged incidents, personally I think this is just another way to raise revenue just like states that require vehicle registration, and it's also just more Govt. control. One thing I don't get is that they are going to require registration and possibly ground certification for both owners of "drones" like Phantoms and $40 quads to pay the same certification fees, are they out of their freaking minds? Most people who can't afford Phantoms or don't want to risk watching their investment flyaway aren't going to want to pay extra fees just so they can fly their $40-100 bird. Nevertheless the FAA who usually takes years to move on anything has this on a "fast track" and wants the new rules to go into effect by Xmas when drone sales are highest, rumor has it they may include point of purchase registration, although that would require cooperation from retailers and as we all know most of these companies are in Shenzhen China, good luck with that! This the latest info http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/10/19/dot-drone-task-force-registry/74210902 and it appears they want to force "hobbyists" with even light aircraft to register to be able to track down anyone who interferes with or threatens planes., basically it appears they are going to treat hobbyists like would be terrorists, (what about the real threat of military drones being used inside the U.S. and being able to conduct "strikes" ? hard to believe but it's true! http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/05/revealed-holder-letter-leaves-open-possibility-of-drone-strikes-on-u-s-soil)

Anyway my understanding is most $40-$100 mini and even medium size quads like the V686 and Syma X5c can't reach most aircraft altitudes and have very short sustained flight time due not to having the power capabilities that quads like the Phantom have. They are even talking about including Minis. Many suspect they are not doing this to protect the skies, they are doing this so the cops can track any user that violates or is suspected to violate privacy laws etc. So you don't violate "flight rules" but some idiot like this one who totally supports registration and is quoted as saying in USA TODAY " It may be a problem you don't have, but I have already had one flying around my neighborhood filming peoples back yards. "People have a right to thier privacy. And since some people can't behave like adults when playing with thier toys some form of regulation was inevitable. And needed." Let's say he reports you to the cops, what's to stop the cops from showing up at your door, all they have to do is lookup your FAA registration, are they going to force you to put the registration numbers on your bird like the AMA members are already doing ? I refer you to the woman in CT who assaulted a teen because he flew his quad too close to her.

Of course she is the one who was arrested. But as far as including low altitude aircraft goes, how else can you explain it, if the quads pose little risk in the skies and more so to private citizens and companies? Oh and get this one if you review quads on Youtube and suspect you monetize your channel you may get a nasty letter from the FAA telling you you are in violation and to cease or face fines, I kid you not, here is one incident that already happened http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2478295,00.asp

What do they care? It's all about the Benjamin's
They should be known now as the Freedom Attacking Agency

To add to my concern and frustration I live in one of the wonderful states in the Northwest that decided to ban drones, with the exclusion of AMA recommendations based on 2012 FAA rules for hobbyists, custom made aircraft are exempt, my understanding is, that the law includes everything that is RTF, FPV capable, so that means that if I have Hubsan (auto correct changed to Husband lol) 107d with FPV and one of the neighbors calls the cops and they press charges I could be heavily fined and even jailed, suddenly this hobby is starting to look less and less appealing. One last thought, preppers who are known for stockpiling weapons and what not, for a SHTF scenarios agree, having an eye in the sky like a Phantom to see what's around you or "coming at" you is being the Ultimate Prepper, in that scenario the laws won't matter since the Govt. will have gone underground and there would be total chaos and anarchy. So my question is, does it have to come to that for people with quads to be safe from these draconian laws and not risk arrest and prosecution. Why wasn't it enough for the FAA to just stick with the no fly zone laws around airports? Speaking of no fly zone, is it true that the White House has. 15 mile fly zone that means nothing, no quads nothing, that has really gotta suck for the people who live there, does that mean you can't fly a quad with your son at the park without breaking the law and be considered a terrorist, is this what it's come to? If so then how sad is that! Oh and what about the guy form Oregon who was fined $1000 for flying Yellowstone. With the FAA proposing fines as much as $25000, they are going to be putting a lot of people in jail! Needless to say I am very disheartened by all this and very cautious. That's my two cents worth, let's see what the rest have of you have to say about this.

 

[HDtallrider]

What you are bringing up here is a concern to all of us and the Mods and many members have been discussing it for several days now. It is being discussed on a thread started by ringalong. " U.S. Will Require Drones to be Registered". Check it out and I believe you will find a lot of your concerns being addressed there. Please jump in.

 

[Skybird]

Thanks HD I will, I'm really freaked out about this, here in OR. they are going to require hobby craft to be registered with the Dept. Of Aviation in 2016 and they already have laws prohibiting flying over property etc.

 

[GJH105775]

Thanks HD I will, I'm really freaked out about this, here in OR. they are going to require hobby craft to be registered with the Dept. Of Aviation in 2016 and they already have laws prohibiting flying over property etc.

Wow, this might be one case where I'd like federal legislation NOT allow local laws against this. Call your local officials, believe it or not you can actually make a difference.

Anyway my understanding is most $40-$100 mini and even medium size quads like the V686 and Syma X5c can't reach most aircraft altitudes and have very short sustained flight time due not to having the power capabilities that quads like the Phantom have.

Most quads in general can't reach 20,000 feet, with model planes that is actually not impossibly uncommon. The only place you really have a possible problem with quads in near airports. Though a multirotor could never bring down a commercial aircraft unless some sort of one and a billion chance.

From 1990 to 2009 recorded by the FAA, there were 87,419 bird strikes to aircraft, causing $158 million in damage, and resulted in 19 fatalities.

Here is you a nice interactive graph.
http://vizcandy.blogspot.com/p/tableau-8-redoux.html

Here is more info.
http://wildlife.faa.gov/downloads/Wildlife-Strike-Report-1990-2013-USDA-FAA.pdf

 

[GJH105775]

http://quadcopterforum.com/threads/u-s-will-require-drones-to-be-registered.6235

 

[Mike H.]

Actually ,a quad can bring down a commercial jet..If a bird flying or being sucked into the turbine can, so could a quad which can do much more damage to the blades.

I can somewhat see the privacy issue herem..If you are purposely hovering over a neighbors yard to see the misses sunbathing you are invading privacy...People put up fences for privacy with there family and friends..Flying over a yard is like your neighbor pulling himself up to look in your back yard...Its just not accepted and thought of as invasion of privacy if caught. (Unless maybe a neighbor friend trying to get your attention.)

Another issue is safety..These larger drones weigh enough that if it falls from the sky and hits someone minding there own business ,its going to hurt badly and most likely hospitalize them.

I sort of see both sides to this and of course see it as a revenue opportunity for some.

Some "Toy" Quads can fly out 300m and carry a tiny micro or nano fpv system which is quite far enough to venture out into the neighborhood.

Im in a similar situation with Vaping, on proposals for crazy taxes and banning in areas.

Anything Good or fun is not allowed without paying the piper...The American way..hahaha.

 

[HDtallrider]

What you have said about safety, privacy etc. is common sense. There are already laws in place to handle those issues. We don't need more laws and regulations for them. One regulation I might get behind is an altitude restriction when flying around known commercial/private flight paths or, of course, anywhere near controlled air space. Beyond that the rest would just be typical government redundancy. Our tax dollars at work........

 

[GJH105775]

Actually ,a quad can bring down a commercial jet..If a bird flying or being sucked into the turbine can, so could a quad which can do much more damage to the blades.

I can somewhat see the privacy issue herem..If you are purposely hovering over a neighbors yard to see the misses sunbathing you are invading privacy...People put up fences for privacy with there family and friends..Flying over a yard is like your neighbor pulling himself up to look in your back yard...Its just not accepted and thought of as invasion of privacy if caught. (Unless maybe a neighbor friend trying to get your attention.)

Another issue is safety..These larger drones weigh enough that if it falls from the sky and hits someone minding there own business ,its going to hurt badly and most likely hospitalize them.

I sort of see both sides to this and of course see it as a revenue opportunity for some.

Some "Toy" Quads can fly out 300m with and carry a tiny micro or nano fpv system which is quite far enough to venture out into the neighborhood.

Im in a similar situation with Vaping on proposals for crazy taxes and banning in areas.

Anything Good or fun is not allowed without paying the piper...The American way..hahaha.

Actually weight(and resistance) comes more into play more than the material, remember that a piece of foam debries impacting is what brought down the space shuttle Colombia. Commercial jets are designed to be able to loose an engine, or all power for that matter and still land. Some birds (especially if you are trying to take off or land in Canada, you will at some point hit a bird)

Spoiler: Bird Impacts

Even helicopters are not exempt

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/2011_q3/4/
The chances of a consumer UAV impacting and bringing a plane down are less than that of everyone on board being struck and killed by lightening after they get off the plane.

Kinetic Energy = .5*M*V^2
M=Mass
V= Velocity

A 747 travels at 255 meters per second (920 km/h)

Let's say a 1.3kg (somewhat common) UAV impacts a 747 during flight you will have:
42,406 joules of energy or 31,277 foot-pounds of force (like sitting a 15 ton object on a 1ft circle)

Now let's say a 4 pound bird (common weight of bird impacts) to 15 pound (a little heavy, but happens almost every day)
58,716 joules of energy 43,306 foot-pounds of force (like sitting a 21.6 ton object on a 1ft circle) to 221,817 joules (163,604 foot-pounds) of force (Like sitting an 82 ton object on a 1ft circle).

What you have said about safety, privacy etc. is common sense. There are already laws in place to handle those issues. We don't need more laws and regulations for them. One regulation I might get behind is an altitude restriction when flying around known commercial/private flight paths or, of course, anywhere near controlled air space. Beyond that the rest would just be typical government redundancy. Our tax dollars at work........

Well there are already laws about airspace restrictions, though classifying consumer UAVs means that class G airspace is almost nonexistent.

 

[HDtallrider]

Actually weight(and resistance) comes more into play more than the material, remember that a piece of foam debries impacting is what brought down the space shuttle Colombia. Commercial jets are designed to be able to loose an engine, or all power for that matter and still land. Some birds (especially if you are trying to take off or land in Canada, you will at some point hit a bird)

Spoiler: Bird Impacts

Even helicopters are not exempt

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/2011_q3/4/
The chances of a consumer UAV impacting and bringing a plane down are less than that of everyone on board being struck and killed by lightening after they get off the plane.

Kinetic Energy = .5*M*V^2
M=Mass
V= Velocity

A 747 travels at 255 meters per second (920 km/h)

Let's say a 1.3kg (somewhat common) UAV impacts a 747 during flight you will have:
42,406 joules of energy or 31,277 foot-pounds of force (like sitting a 15 ton object on a 1ft circle)

Now let's say a 4 pound bird (common weight of bird impacts) to 15 pound (a little heavy, but happens almost every day)
58,716 joules of energy 43,306 foot-pounds of force (like sitting a 21.6 ton object on a 1ft circle) to 221,817 joules (163,604 foot-pounds) of force (Like sitting an 82 ton object on a 1ft circle).

You're so smart you piss me off......Hahahahaaaaa!! I sure am glad you're on our side

 

[GJH105775]

You're so smart you piss me off......Hahahahaaaaa!! I sure am glad you're on our side

Hahaha, that is just simple physics, taught in high-school, but it is probably stored in the part of our brain that all of our high-school Spanish goes xD Sure I took it, but I still only remember two words of Spanish xD

 

[HDtallrider]

I grew up in the 60's and the only Spanish I remembered was" thank you" and that's only because it sounded like "Much Grass"........

 

[GJH105775]

I grew up in the 60's and the only Spanish I remembered was" thank you" and that's only because it sounded like "Much Grass"........

Hahaha, about the same for me, it comes and goes randomly hahaha.