Multi-capable Quad/Hex Build?

[Gyro]

Im fairly new to the multirotor scene but Ive been through the stages of buying more advanced models and found myself at the Eachine 250 with the Full FPV package. This quad was beyond my expectations and really fun to fly (especially after the tune,) but most importantly it opened up my eyes to what these are capable of. So Ive been searching for weeks now for the perfect all around build. Almost every night i would come home from work and put together a whole new build online and just end up closing it out hours later unsatisfied. Like I said, I am new to the scene, so the only knowledge of good parts are from self research and I still lack the finally outcome capabilities. I really want to push the limits of precision flying here.. I am fairly tech inclined and can do all the work myself and still cant even decide on a frame size... HELP PLEASE!

 

[holtneil]

Hi what do you want it to be able to do in the end ?

 

[Gyro]

I want to have a machine i can do acrobatics, filming, and gps missions. Im really starting to get into acrobatics so power and stability are key. the tune should take care of most of the work for me. I was thinking around a 450 size frame but ive been trying to cram 8-10" props on the smallest frame i can. Basically I want something that can do it all. I dont need more than a mile range or anything crazy either.

 

[holtneil]

Hi a 450 is a good mid size ,the FCB should easy give you a stable fight for video then acro , I would look at making the camera gimble easy to remove as you will not want this in acro mode or just small camera mounted to the frame , as for props you should be good with a 10x4.7,just go for mid range kV on the motor this will give you the power but flight times will not be mega long but still OK with a good mah battery

 

[Gyro]

What would you recommend for mid range motors? 22xx 930kv? or like 35xx 720kv? also what are your opinions on the better flight controllers? naza m and such..

 

[holtneil]

If you want a fast 450 then go to 1000 or 1200 kV , a 930 is just getting into fast I normally look at 650 to 900 for a heavy lift quad low rpm high torque .
Look at the tarot yxz-m it a great price and the guys on here say its one of the best, hobby king does it
Also go over kill on the ESCs 30 amp min this will let you try bigger props and 4 cells on the better motors.
As for battery look at the multistar from hobby king these are quad only batteries high Mah low weight the C rate is not very high but normally you wont pull that much to need really high C rate

 

[Gyro]

ok...so i finally got my build together and i am fighting a vibration/shuttering problem when more than quarter throttle. Ive tried everything except lowering the gains to a state that wont fly. Ive chosen some sweet 8050 bull nose props and would like to stick with them if possible. I want agility and stability before i merge filming into the plans.
Parts:
f450 frame (hobbyking)
kk2.0
spider lite 20A BEC with Blheli
2213-935kv multistars
HQ 8050 bullnose props
Using my eachine i6 tx and rx( works great and is simple )
Also have tried a 3s 4000mah and 3s 2200mah but even the 2200 still caused vibration.
tightened every screw just incase.

My thoughts:
F450 frame cant handle the thrust?
kk2.0 needs flashed and tuned through computer, not just through the board?

I havent even put gps, camera, or any other accessories on it yet... Please help

 

[RENOV8R]

I don't think it would be the batteries, it should even be able handle 4S if you wanted. And the more experienced could answer, could it be underpowered? Check the simple things first, are your props and motors balanced? Is the weight distributed properly and quad balanced. In my limited experience, if my gains or PIDs are to high or just wrong, I get more of an oscillation and uncontrollability, not shaking/vibration.

 

[Gyro]

What i meant by the batteries its the weight could possibly have been to heavy, but thats not the case. I hope to invest in a 4s soon...I know the power is there because it wants to take off but the vibration makes it shutter and loose balance. I know the weight is distributed properly because everything is forced to be centered. Im using the SK450 not the F450. i just ordered the Q450 which is supposed to have stiffer arms. I think i might just need to balance the rotors and motors... lets hope. ill know in a little while.
Also i just ran into an issue where when i roll it with self level off, it flips like 12 times before it loses control haha. I did manage one nice front flip before smashing it into the ground on the next try. I stole a tune off a forum that was probably set for self level only, am i right? I only have one tune to work with but still have auto level on off. (again, still havent hooked anything up to the computer yet. still waiting of usb programmer for kk board)

thanks for the reply

 

[Gyro]

after hours of work into this today ive decided the frame is too flimsy for the thrust being produced and/or may need to jump up to 9" props.. after close inspection when i punch it from a stand still its just twists the arms and so starts the death shutter..well.... put a 502 big block on a stock frame with slicks.... you sure as hell arent going straight and your frame wont be either haha.. Ive already ordered the Q450 but im thinking ill need to go too a aluminum frame or carbon fiber.

 

[holtneil]

Hi mate 8 inch props are a little small for a 450 , I ran 10x4.7 on a 1200 kV motor on a f450 ,I would run 10s on a 930 kV motor ,my 700 runs 15x5.5 on a 650 kV , normally any motor under 1000 kV run bigger props the 8 inch bull nose fit racing quads and run 2300 kV motors min

 

[Gyro]

Hi mate 8 inch props are a little small for a 450 , I ran 10x4.7 on a 1200 kV motor on a f450 ,I would run 10s on a 930 kV motor ,my 700 runs 15x5.5 on a 650 kV , normally any motor under 1000 kV run bigger props the 8 inch bull nose fit racing quads and run 2300 kV motors min

why are they too small? they have tons of surface area and tons of thrust. im not really focused on slow fly at the moment and im more on the experimental side of things. i think my final outcome is going to be the Q380 frame with 1200-1400kv motors and the 8" bullnose or carbon fiber blades(cf probably) how does that sound?

 

[holtneil]

Hi the 8 inch will work better on the 2300 kV high rpm motors , if you want to slow fly then go a low kV like 650 on bigger props this will give you more lift as the lower kv motor has more torque but is slower to speed up on throttle change
When you look at props its not the surface area its the pitch you need to look at as well 8 inch 5 degs will got give as same lift as 10 inch 4.7 degs
I tested a 450 quad with 1200kv motors with 9x4 props you needed over 60% throttle to lift off ,same set up but 10x4.7 you needed 30% throttle and it was like a rocket

 

[Gyro]

i thought the 2300 motors were for 6" max? my eachine is somewhere in that area and the emax motors for the same setup says 4-6". Im kinda at a midpoint here because im waiting on my 380mm frame and ive got the q450 frame running great. its really smooth with just a pretuned flash just not quite peppy enough for me yet. the 38o supposedly can take 10" props so the power to weight is going to be exactly what im looking for. maybe 1600kv (ish) with 9045 props on the 380mm frame. how do you think it would fly?

 

[holtneil]

Hi it should be good ,most of the time we play with set ups and run motors for 3cells on 4 for more power if the motor blows then we know 3 cell is max , you work it out. By the flight weight x2 ÷ by the number of motors this will tell. You the thrust each motor must give ( minimum) in grams any extra make the quad more of a beast and faster , ecal.com is good for running set ups in

 

[Gyro]

thanks man. this hobby is a lot of trial and error. so youll get more out of a nice 3 cell motor than a cheaper 4 cell motor?

 

[holtneil]

Yes there is a saying "buy cheap buy twice "
Always get the best you can afford

 

[Gyro]

Awesome. Ill keep that in mind.